Born again….

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    • #37447
      Bsfc321
      Participant

      I want to share some thoughts I am having concerning the concept of being “born again from above” as Jesus said we must be to be saved. Throughout my life, as I talked about in my other thread, I have fought an inner battle of license vs legalism, resulting in feeling like I am just a total nut of a Christian. I am totally grace by faith, I believe Jesus’s works on the cross was totally done, and only by faith in that will I be saved. That said, I have made so many totally idiotic desicions in my life and have been so immersed in the world at times, and I will listen to a faith+works teacher and start thinking, maybe I’m NOT saved, because if I am a born again Christian, then the words “born again” are meaningless. Those moments make faith+works teachers seem wise. But then I realize, this is the pharisees….these are the people Jesus warned about. That cycle happens over and over yearly to me. I have a thing to, and this is both funny and strange…I almost always feel like a total moron talking to other Christian’s, because anytime I discuss Bible stuff with anyone, I immediately feel like we are being pious or wanna be holy or something. Christianese type of talk does it to me as well. It makes me feel like a fake to be around Christian’s. I don’t know if it is a lack of humility on my part, or some weird antisocial personality thing I have. I have literally in my life met maybe three Christian’s that I talked to and felt comfortable. I can’t go to church because of this, I feel totally fake and ridiculous, like it is all a play act or something. I did not grow up in the church, I was saved through Bible study with my dad and alot of learning and listening to grace preaching. Again, none of that is any reflection on anyone other than me….I would love to have friends in the body of Christ who I can talk to and hang out.  And again, it is mostly me and my own weird personality quirks.

       

      The thing that might make some of that make sense for me… I came upon an idea a few years ago that hit me hard, I resonated with it and it makes so much sense. I cannot for the life of me remember who was teaching. The teaching is that the inception of the Church was at Pentecost, and the BIRTH of the church is at the Rapture. Pentecost was not fulfilled completely.

       

      This hits me like a brick. Because I always kind of turn over in my mind….we get new bodies at the Rapture. Why? Because these bodies of flesh are sinful. So God has to change us into perfected bodies to present us as a perfect and unblemished bride to Christ. And that is where grace is total and complete. While we are here, we receive the Holy Spirit….but we are not ever born again until we are raptured, or we die in Christ and our spirit is present with Him. All we can do here is allow the Holy Spirit to work through us and place our faith in Christ. As we grow to know more about Him and keep our eyes on His word and develop that relationship, the more humility we find, as we find HE did it all, and that is where the Holy Spirit can work through us and sin may be lessened. The flipside of that being, the more we focus on “striving for perfection”, trying to not sin in our human minds and worried about keeping ourselves saved….that is where pride and arrogance and holier than thou grows inside us. The opposite of Christ.

       

      I have no idea if that points to a Pentecost fulfillment. I myself lean towards some random day when absolutely no one expects it.

       

      Just really thinking out loud. I don’t have a physical church and would love to hear any thoughts. I know my ideas are probably basic for many here, but I am really trying to stop struggling with the license legalism thing. It hinders me terribly.

       

       

      +9
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    • #37449
      tenderreed
      Participant

      Indeed many landmines in organized religion that need to be negotiated!

      Once I learned that no Christian is perfect a lot of pressure lifted!  This plus the fact that we are all broken vessels before the Lord!

      Some more broken than others, sad to say!  Which often brings me to ask what the Lord sees in any of us?!

      Indeed we have all fallen short of God’s glory, that’s a given!  Lord have mercy on so many saints that I don’t like hanging with!

      That said, He being God can put up with a lot more than me.  Many must thank God I’m not God!!!

      TR

       

      +9
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    • #37450
      Bsfc321
      Participant

      “That said, He being God can put up with a lot more than me.  Many must thank God I’m not God!!!”

       

      That is both absolutely hilarious and incredibly wise!! :agree

      +9
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    • #37452
      Geri7
      Blocked

      I learned you can never please everybody no matter how hard you try, even if you obey every commandment the Lord requires of us.  Some people will still resent and criticize the person.  I’ve learned to just keep my eyes on Jesus and I’m only concerned in pleasing Him  as much as I can.  The Lord knows our hearts and what we are going through and our circumstances.  I’m judge harshly by my oldest sibling in California for not attending church.  He loves to say I’m forsaking the assembling together with other believers.  The nearest sound church is 4 hrs round trip and they don’t preach about the rapture.  I refuse to go to a local laodicean church just to say I attended a “church”.  Jesus said when 2 or 3 are gathered in my name, then I am in the midst.  I consider this forum board my church.  It is a place for fellowship, praying for one another and for learning.

      My job was in this town and then after I purchased this place the company folded up.  I am too tired to pack up and relocate elsewhere.  I think its safer to live in the country now anyway – less crime vs. being smack in the city with the crazy far left people to deal with.  Plus with the thought of the rapture happening at any moment … this is what is keeping me upbeat and gives me hope.

      +8
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      • #37453
        Bsfc321
        Participant

        I live in a small rural Indiana town, near farmland. I agree!

        +9
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      • #37460
        Blue
        Participant

        Geri, that verse about not forsaking the assembling together with other believers…I once heard a teaching on it that said it actually means, if you look in Hebrew, to not forsake the teaching about the rapture (our assembling together).  Don’t remember who said it, but maybe a Bible scholar among us can tell us.

        +7
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      • #37463
        Blue
        Participant

        Or Latin or Greek, whatever.

        +6
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    • #37454
      Kent
      Participant

      Where oh where do you draw the line with an active sense of humor. Some things are dog gone funny. I deal with that often and try to temper it a little. Not always successfully. But then again, I want to be genuine. Being born again shouldn’t be boring. Hopefully I won’t hear about it later. Anyway, it’s His righteousness, not mine. And I also know, as Paul said, Grace isn’t a license to sin.

      +9
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      • #37465
        Geri7
        Blocked

        When I’m having a really bad day … I mean everything possible is going wrong and even your favorite ceramic item your dog accidentally knocks over and it falls on the hardwood floor and shatters into a million pieces.  Instead of getting upset … I said ok Lord, I really didn’t need that ceramic snowflake candle holder after all.  It’s only going to get left behind and burn.  Then I find myself laughing and before you know it I’m singing praise songs and I’m in a joyful mood. :whistle:

        +6
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    • #37455
      Kent
      Participant

      So love God, love your fellow man, and accept the Sacrifice on the cross. And relax in Him

      +9
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    • #37456
      Kent
      Participant

      And laugh. These people at RITA are pretty hilarious at times.

      +9
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      • #37461
        Geri7
        Blocked

        Yep, laughing is good and free medicine :whistle:

        Nehemiah 8:10 “the joy of the Lord is my strength”

        Proverbs 17:22 – A merry heart doeth good [like] a medicine: but a broken spirit drieth the bones.

        Job 8:21 – Till he fill thy mouth with laughing, and thy lips with rejoicing.

        Psalms 126:2 – Then was our mouth filled with laughter, and our tongue with singing: then said they among the heathen, The LORD hath done great things for them.

        Ecclesiastes 3:4 – A time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance;

        Luke 6:21 – Blessed [are ye] that hunger now: for ye shall be filled. Blessed [are ye] that weep now: for ye shall laugh.

        James 5:13 – Is any among you afflicted? let him pray. Is any merry? let him sing psalms.

        Proverbs 15:15 – All the days of the afflicted [are] evil: but he that is of a merry heart [hath] a continual feast.

        Genesis 21:6 – And Sarah said, God hath made me to laugh, [so that] all that hear will laugh with me.

        +9
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    • #37462
      Kent
      Participant

      Geri, thanks for the Word’s point of view on laughter. Can’t go wrong there!

      +11
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    • #37464
      tenderreed
      Participant

      Not forsaking fellowship!  Fellowship back the was in someone’s house, a hillside and eventually catacombs!

      Not organized church!  That said, this one time injunction seemed to be presented as an afterthought!

      An Oh by the way moment!  People will not go to hell for lack of regular attendance!

      If this injunction meant anything more there would have been much follow up, IMHO!

      TR

      +8
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    • #37466
      tenderreed
      Participant

      How many Christian’s does it take to change a lightbulb?!

      One is praying for more faith, two are asking if it’s God’s will, one is still looking for proof text and one is seeking a committee to vote on it!

      And one is still shopping!

      Answer:  One lone janitor who likes light!

       

      +5
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      • #37467
        Geri7
        Blocked

        :mdrmdr:

        “The one still shopping!”   :mdrmdr:

        +4
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    • #37470
      tenderreed
      Participant

      If according to Johanan, that food is medicine, then laughter is the dessert!

      TR

      +6
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    • #37472
      Tammie
      Participant

      Bsfc321 – so I totally get what you are saying, I was not raised in church either, my Dad was Atheists & moved to Agnostic later in life …. I dabbled in the occult and accepted Christ as a snotty nose, smart-Alec, cocky teenager, who thought, I was so smart. I first belonged to a right-winged, Legalistic, Fundamental, we hate everybody church and went to a Bible college of the same…it took me years to get past that and at some level, I still battle that past.
      In the 70’s I was introduced to the concept of the rapture and started to learn much of what the end times is all about.

      In the 80’s I learned how important it is to memorize Gods Word for myself and these two concepts have sustained me thru many personal battles related to bad choices that I made in life as a believer. I’m also a science nerd, so the only road for me was medicine, but all of that puts me labeled as eccentric or just a “strange bird”. Now top all that with a sick sense of humor :calvin , Creates quite the personal conflict.
      You are right, there is a lot wrong with our “community” we label as church. A lot of people “play” church, to feel good about themselves. I have witnessed this, having been a missionary for 12 years, I saw the coldness, self absorption, complacency growing in churches (we where responsible for 265 churches and that’s a small drop in the bucket of the numbers out there).
      The fight has been long, I am tired and ready to fly up… so look at all we are to do .. a strange verse, I came across and decided to memorize because it speaks volumes of our life requirements by grace ….
      Micah 6:8 “He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God”
      Along with this, I have learned not to take myself too seriously (It’s not about me – it’s all about Jesus), I’m ok with offending folks into heaven (what have I to loose), and encourage those who are of like mind — keep watching, waiting, praying (conversation with God), run the race and don’t look back (I usually trip and fall when I look back). :mdrmdr:

      We are so very close and it is going to be so awesomely cool to fly upward, see Jesus and begin enjoying eternity and getting the inheritance that is kept for us. :prayer-hands:

      +9
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    • #37487
      tenderreed
      Participant

      After the fact;  the lone janitor who loves light could be me!  Go figure!

      TR

       

      +4
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