A Pretribulation Bible Study Group Forums Main Forum CORONAVIRUS NEWS Here: Talk 32

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    • #101678

      Carry on!

      Previous thread here.

    • #101618

      They are now tampering the chewing gum. B-)


      Per MSN

      They are placing genomic particles into chewing gum to combat C-19…they want people to be the guinea pigs and it seems that the elites will have a “never-ending” supply…..until the supply ends, that is…
      Experimental chewing gum reduces Omicron in saliva; sexual dysfunction, hair loss among long COVID symptoms

      – Fair Use –

    • #101619

      In the comment section of the preventive “COVID gum”

      Someone said
      We have a robust immune system for a reason! Take your vitamins, C, D and Zinc. I also take Olive Leaf Extract and Hawthorn.

      another person said
      Olive Leaf is your best bet, been taking since COVID started and even killed my Flu back in 2019.

      – Fair Use –


      Anybody here use Olive Leaf Extract?  If so, any side effects?  

    • #101621

      Geri, I have used it.

      Can cause agitation. I had to stop taking it.

    • #101631

      Shame on them!


      Moderna offers highly effective protection for young children: Health Minister

      Health Minister Sylvia Jones said the lower-dose Moderna shot would protect young family members against COVID-19.

      God, please supernaturally protect the little ones.


    • #101689
      Avatar photoDonna
    • #101873

      Opinion Letter from the Vaxxed 💉 To the Unvaxxed 💉 Listen and Learn (that’s a good one, I like what I heard)

    • #101879

      I heard a video on Brighteon about a father confronting a pharmacist. His son got the vax there and they were never told about the possibility of getting myocarditis. They were only told that he will get a sore arm from the injection. The child got myocarditis and the father called the pharmacy. After he asked the pharmacist so many times why they don’t tell people about the risks, she finally said: we don’t want to scare people.  He really gave it to her, called her a murderer among other things. I can’t post the video here, the father lost his temper at the end and used bad language but the stuff he said to the pharmacist was right, they are murderers for not telling people about the risks.

      • #102818

        I heard that same video as well, it is amazing to me that their excuse is they don’t want to scare people away from taking the vax yet it’s ok to take part in taking their child’s life. I also believe in this case the mother took the son in against the fathers wishes.

    • #101896

      The name of the video is: “Father speaks to Pharmacist after his son was diagnosed with Myocarditis caused by the covid VAXX”

    • #101898

      Yay! This was going to happen sooner or later. Please God let more people wake up.


      Parents are done giving their kids all vaccines says Heather Gessling, MD


    • #101913

      Canadian Viral Immunologist Dr. Jessica Rose: The Best Covid ‘Injection’ Breakdown Video on the Internet


    • #102007

      Germans Must Receive Covid Booster Every 3 Months to Qualify as ‘Vaccinated’  😳

      (Posted TODAY- 8/13/22)

      Per Rairfoundation


      – Fair Use –

    • #102009

      When they begin to drop dead as is happening to so many, that will also qualify them as vaccinated.


    • #102017

      Yikes!  This is how China assembles their “safe & effective” covid testing kits. :wacko:

      This is just a snap shot


      In the comment section:

      Plus – if they have “covid” their germs are ALL OVER those “sterile” tests!- which would cause positives results for those who do NOT have “covid” (that is if the tests were even accurate to begin with)…good grief! What a rabbit-trail of lies and deception!

      wow–this is like an episode of “How it’s Made…”🤡
      let’s go get a safe and effective PCR test–that’s the ticket!


      – Fair Use –

    • #102019

      Interesting theory :popcorn


      One  watcher thinks …

      “why I believe the image of the beast is the cadesus“


      Lucifer intertwined with the serpent beast called the hydra inside the 3rd templevia the snake bite luciferase hydrogel

      By the way, a dragon beast with seven heads that is described as the hydra is mentioned in the book of revelation chapter 13. the hydra was a water beast, it is mentioned in revelation that it was coming out of the water

      The dragon stood on the shore of the sea. And I saw a beast coming out of the sea. It had ten horns and seven heads, with ten crowns on its horns, and on each head a blasphemous name.

      One of the heads of the beast seemed to have had a fatal wound, but the fatal wound had been healed. The whole world was filled with wonder and followed the beast.
      in the mythilogical creatures mentioned in history, the hydras head was wounded because it had the ability to reanimate its heads.

      Jesus said” The kingdom of God is within you”(Luke 17:21 the Lord was talking about the human body, the molecular kingdom that is under attack by the system of the antichrist.  The temple is being defiled by the system of the Antichrist


      Another person said
      That’s an interesting theory, that the vaxx contains the DNA of the fallen angels. I hadn’t heard that before, but these days it seems like almost anything is possible! I suppose after we are raptured we will know one way or the other. But this much is clear: the vaxx is demonic and is definitely a precursor to the MOTB!


      – Fair Use –

    • #102055
      Patricia N.

      WOW!!! CDC Completely Reverses Course. IT’S OVER!

      ORIGINAL CONTENT by Chris Martenson on Friday, August 12th, 2022

      And, just like that, it was over.
      This is HUGE news folks. In bureaucrat speak, this is a near-complete cave-in to the actual facts:

      New Covid 19 guidance from the CDC, August 11, 2022:
      “Those exposed to the virus are no longer required to quarantine.
      Unvaccinated people now have the same guidance as vaccinated people.
      Students can stay in class after being exposed to the virus.
      It’s no longer required to screen those without symptoms.”

      No symptoms? No problem.
      Vaccinated or unvaccinated? Same guidance.
      Exposed? No need to even quarantine.
      Students exposed? They can stay in class.

      So why is the CDC walking back their “guidance” at this time? I don’t know, but there aren’t any new studies of which I am aware that would have decisively shifted the balance one way or the other.

      Instead, I think it was the Danish government making it illegal to administer vaccines to minors (<18 years of age) after finally noticing that the risk-reward ratio was not favorable.

      Or, maybe it’s simply that the CDC has read the latest polls and realized that the Democrats are going to lose their majorities and are trying to get in front of the investigations the Republicans are sure to launch as soon as they can?


    • #102218

      Just when you think you’ve seen it all …



      – Fair Use –


      This is just a snap shot … so  is this another way for them to scare people away from seafood and direct them to “safe” alternative … bugs? 🙄

    • #102224
      Patricia N.

      Dr. Fauci Announces Resignation ONE DAY After Sen. Rand Paul Promises to Get to the Bottom of COVID’s Origins:

      On Sunday, Senator Rand Paul promised in his latest interview with Just the News that Republicans would get to the bottom of COVID-19’s origins when the GOP takes over the US Senate in 2023.

      Rand Paul: “I think most of the mainstream media has kept off of the airwaves a discussion of gain-of-function research or the origins of the virus, but we will get to the bottom of this.”

      On Monday, less than 24 hours later, Dr. Tony Fauci announced his resignation — effective in December, a month before the new Senate is sworn in!

      Dr. Fauci: “I am announcing today that I will be stepping down from the positions of Director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases (NIAID) and Chief of the NIAID Laboratory of Immunoregulation, as well as the position of Chief Medical Advisor to President Joe Biden.”

      Senator Rand Paul frequently confronted Dr. Fauci on his numerous lies and pseudoscience during the coronavirus pandemic.

      It is well documented that Dr. Fauci funded the Wuhan lab where the virus was first released.

      UPDATE: Dr. Fauci Announces Resignation ONE DAY After Sen. Rand Paul Promises to Get to the Bottom of COVID’s Origins …With Update

    • #102241
      Patricia N.

      A New Rare Viral Disease Called “Tomato Flu” is Affecting Children in India — Symptoms Comparable to Covid-19 and Blisters Resembles with Monkeypox Virus:

      In India, a large number of children have been diagnosed with a newly discovered infectious disease, and even professionals are uncertain as to where the outbreak may have originated.

      According to a report published in the Lancet Respiratory Medicine Journal, “tomato flu” was first discovered on May 6 in India and has since infected more children ages 1 to 9.

      “The rare viral infection is in an endemic state and is considered non-life-threatening; however, because of the dreadful experience of the COVID-19 pandemic, the vigilant management is desirable to prevent further outbreaks,” according to Lancet Journal.

      Tomato Flu or tomato fever is an uncommon viral disease with symptoms that are comparable to Covid-19 and blisters that resembles with monkeypox virus.

      Tomato flu produces red rashes, skin irritation, and dehydration. The disease derives its name from the tomato-shaped blisters it causes.

      “Tomato flu gained its name on the basis of the eruption of red and painful blisters throughout the body that gradually enlarge to the size of a tomato. These blisters resemble those seen with the monkeypox virus in young individuals.”

      A New Rare Viral Disease Called “Tomato Flu” is Affecting Children in India — Symptoms Comparable to Covid-19 and Blisters Resembles with Monkeypox Virus

    • #102285

      I read months ago on Natural News ( I think ) that when the truth comes out about the vax, they will blame Trump. It seems to be starting. I hope only the guilty will be blamed and brought to justice.

      However, does this mean that the truth is coming out now or will come out soon?

      I am looking forward to the day that the truth comes out and is even admitted on MSM that the vax is dangerous.

      what do you think?

      • #102287

        Yes Heidi they may, but I suspect they will at the same time step up confusion about whether the “vaccine” is really good or really bad.  We may have to wait a thousand years for guilt and justice to be declared.  Don’t expect it before we’re gone.  The thief only comes to kill, steal, and destroy.

    • #102290
      Perhaps Today

      I look forward to the rapture. i don’t look forward to much of anything else except going home with Jesus.

    • #102548
      Patricia N.

      Biden Coronavirus Adviser: God Gave Us Two Arms ‘One for the Flu Shot … One for the COVID Shot’:

      God gave mankind two arms, each ready to be injected with vaccines pushed by government officials, President Biden’s coronavirus adviser Ashish Jha said this week.

      “I really believe this is why God gave us two arms — one for the flu shot and the other one for the COVID shot,” Jha said during the administration’s COVID-19 press briefing.

      Additionally, Anthony Fauci, outgoing chief medical adviser to President Biden, also weighed in on future vaccines, contending that they should be viewed in the same way as an annual flu shot.

      The call for more frequent coronavirus jabs comes two years after near-constant misinformation pushed by public health officials, who attempted to guilt Americans into getting the jab.



      • #102556

        How insane!

        And their clown 🤡 show continues with …


        Someone said

        ”Demetre Daskalakis, a leading public health expert, is currently Director of the CDC Division of HIV Prevention. Widely known as a national expert on health issues affecting the LGBGQIA+ communities, his clinical practice has focused on providing care for the underserved LGBTQIA+ communities. He previously oversaw management of infectious diseases for the New York City Department of Health and Mental Hygiene, one of the largest departments in the nation – including in serving as incident commander for the City’s COVID-19 response.” the White House said.”


        – Fair Use –


        So glad we are escaping this carnival comedy show!   We fly soon!

        :flyup: :flyup: :flyup: :flyup: :flyup: :flyup: :flyup: :flyup: :flyup: :flyup: :flyup: :flyup: :flyup:

    • #102558

      The sooner the better!
      Maintaining an official narrative is all well and good, but indeed the carnival approach of bypassing science is insane!


    • #102560

      :calvin :prayer-hands:

    • #102574
      Patricia N.

      Covid Vaccines No Longer Needed Thanks to New Natural Israeli Antibody Treatment:

      A team of researchers at Tel Aviv University has proven that antibodies isolated from the immune systems of recovered COVID-19 patients are effective in neutralizing known strains of the virus, including the Delta and the Omicron variants.

      Researchers have declared this a scientific breakthrough. The discovery could remove the need for frequent booster immunizations.

      The findings were reported in the journal Nature Communications Biology.

      Freund and her colleagues sequenced all B immune system cells from the blood of those who recovered from the original COVID strain in Israel and discovered nine antibodies produced by patients. In addition, the researchers learned that some of these antibodies are highly effective at neutralizing the coronavirus subtypes Delta and Omicron.

    • #102800

      This is good! Dr. Stelle Immanuel with Stew Peters. Dr. Stella mentions flesh being corrupted and it means Jesus is coming (forgot exactly the way she said it)

      She also mentions they are going to be praying for 40 days and a number to text.

    • #102998

      Per Expose –

      Whilst they knew you were mourning the Queen’s death, the UK Gov. quietly published reports confirming the Triple Vaccinated account for 91% of COVID Deaths throughout 2022 & there have been over 24k “unexplained” Excess Deaths since April.


      – Fair Use –

    • #103007

      Interesting short clip


      One comment was:

      “The endgame is the implementation of the Mark of the Beast, after the rapture.”


      I was pondering this … we’ve been taught it doesn’t happen until mid point … but we know they want to make everyone, who is left behind transhuman (Ai), so can you picture it after the rapture and the chaos of missing people having vanished … they might use this event as an excuse for … we need to track you … to keep you safe.   Its for your own good … to find you quickly so you don’t disappear either …

      What are your thoughts?

      • #103009

        I wanted to add … they will use fear to get people to line up for some tracking device … perhaps its not the mark of the beast yet but some chip might be implanted? :unsure:

    • #103013

      Good point that the Mark isn’t given until the mid point of the Trib so what will transpire between now and then, or even between now and the Rapture? 3 1/2 years is still a long stretch of time and we see how they are conditioning us towards that goal.

    • #103328

      Dr. Mercola
      This May Become the ‘Dark Winter’ Biden Warned About

      Ever since the rollout of the COVID shots, there have been suspicions that some kind of shedding is happening between the jabbed and the unjabbed. With mass flu vaccination, the possibility of transmission is further exacerbated, and there’s no telling what kind of viral mutations the combination of a bivalent COVID jab and a quadrivalent flu shot might produce.

      A study published January 18, 2018, in the journal PNAS showed that people who receive the seasonal flu shot and then contract influenza excrete infectious influenza viruses through their breath.

      What’s more, those vaccinated two seasons in a row had a greater viral load of shedding influenza A viruses. According to the authors, “We observed 6.3 times more aerosol shedding among cases with vaccination in the current and previous season compared with having no vaccination in those two seasons.”

      This study also highlighted the possibility that annual flu vaccination might lead to reduced protection against influenza over time, and that each vaccination can make you progressively more prone to getting sick. That, again, is the original antigenic sin phenomenon discussed above.

      Now, combine the possibility of antigenic sin for COVID with the antigenic sin for influenza, and what might we end up with? Who knows? Research has also shown that priming your immune system with influenza vaccine can make you more susceptible to bacterial infections as well, and what are face masks loaded with? Bacteria.

      Taken together, we could well be facing the “dark winter” president Biden warned would befall the unvaccinated last year. But it’ll be those with COVID booster and quadrivalent flu shots who will suffer the most. The rest of us will hopefully avoid problems provided we keep our immune systems strong.

      Both Shots Are Associated With Serious Side Effects
      On top of the antigenic sin possibility for both the COVID jab and the flu vaccine, there’s the possibility of suffering serious side effects from either or both of these shots. Before the advent of the COVID jab, injury following influenza vaccination was the most compensated claim in the federal Vaccine Injury Compensation Program (VICP).

      Between January 1, 2006, and December 31, 2019, a total of 5,407 injury claims for flu vaccine were filed, 4,614 of which were compensated. Based on VICP injury filings and awards, the flu vaccine was the riskiest vaccine out there. The COVID jab, however, blew the flu shot out of the water within the first few weeks of use.

      As of September 2, 2022, just 21 months into the COVID jabs existence, 1,400,350 post-jab injuries have been reported to the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS).

      So, this fall, they’re telling people to line up for the two riskiest and deadliest injections out there. In my view, this is reckless beyond belief, and I would caution against this strategy. Disturbingly, media are stating that getting the flu shot and the COVID jab at the same time is “safe.” Yet there are absolutely NO data to support such a claim. It’s pure assumption.


    • #103501


      Large Vax Centre, University of West of England, Bristol Closed Down, By The People


    • #103568

      Please, do not quote ” I will bless those who bless you, and whoever curses you I will curse; and all peoples on earth will be blessed through you.”

      That’s a really messed up request, So Ready!!

      • #103575
        So Ready


        I should have been clearer what I meant.

        I meant that please, do not quote that verse for justifying blind support for Israel and/or jewish matters.

        Nation of Israel is one of members of global community whether we like to admit it or not.

        We need to support them within reasonable and justifiable boundary according to the Bible and international laws, not blindly.

        If they do wrong, we should be able to criticize without any fear of retaliation. But if we do, then pretty much guaranteed to be called anti semite.

        Semites are descendants of Shem, consist of many people of that region, so called middle easterners mainly.

        But when you look at majority of so called jewish and Israelis are Caucasian looking, some even have blond hair, not like Amir Tsafarti, they called themselves as Ashkenazi jews. Ashkenazi is descendants of Japheth, by definition they are not Semites. There are some incoherent things going on. I suspect that there are some (probably many) things hidden from us (probably intentionally).

        Our God is not only Just God but also Almighty God.

        He does not need us, Christians, to help them unjustly and/or blindly since He is beyond Powerful.

        Have you heard that the USS Liberty incident? Probably not, because that has been systemically silenced and buried like many other things.

        That is a very good example of how we, the US is supporting Israel. That’s a shame.

        • #103576

          In Matthew 5:43-45 we read, “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven. For he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust.”

          Everything will be revealed.  Vengeance is God’s, and He has a very sharp sword and will employ it to reveal what each “Jew” and “Gentile” does.  We can discern, yet we can harm others using generalizations.


    • #103574

      I will bless those who bless you, And I will curse him who curses you; And in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed. NKJV Gen 12:3

      Point being, we do quote scripture here and should never be told not to.


    • #103586

      We have decided to pull the video because it is not really appropriate for this forum. It is seen as devisive by a number of our members, some who have not posted publicly. I understand the point you are making but am not crazy about the video.

    • #103701

      CDC Forced to Reveal They Had 71 MILLION Symptoms Reported to Them Following Covid Jabs

      It took a couple of lawsuits, a whole lot of coaxing of an unfriendly judge, and over a year of legal battles to force the CDC to do what they should have done from the beginning. Now we finally have the information about adverse reactions reported to the CDC through their V-Safe app. The data makes it clear why they fought so hard to keep it under wraps. It’s absolutely damning of any notion that the Covid-19 jabs are “safe.”

      71 MILLION symptoms caused by the “vaccines” were reported to the CDC, which they conveniently forgot to mention before over 230 million Americans had already been jabbed at least once.


      Buried Bombshell: CDC Forced to Reveal They Had 71 MILLION Symptoms Reported to Them Following Covid Jabs


    • #103744
      Patricia N.

      Pfizer Partners with Marvel to Release a Digital Comic Book Encouraging People to Get their Covid Shot and Become an ‘Everyday Hero’:

      “We hope that people around the world enjoy reading the comic book… At Pfizer, we encourage people to come together to help protect themselves by staying up to date with COVID-19 vaccinations.”

      The new comic, titled “Everyday Heroes,” is another publicity stunt from the big pharma after a slow jab rollout when almost two-thirds of American adults do not intend to get an updated booster shot.

      . . . .‘Everyday heroes don’t wear capes!

      ‘But they do wear a small bandage on their upper arm after they get their latest Covid vaccination — because everyday heroes are concerned about their health.’

      Pfizer Partners with Marvel to Release a Digital Comic Book Encouraging People to Get their Covid Shot and Become an ‘Everyday Hero’

    • #103748

      Relentless…..just like their father the devil!

      With at minimum, 71 million people affected maimed and disabled these last 3 years, (not including death totals,) let’s pray the world is aware and will choose rightly. :bible


    • #103764
      Patricia N.

      I thought I posted this before, which is why Coronavirus came to the top of the feed, but the article disappeared.  Trying again.

      Marvel Teams with Pfizer, Promotes COVID Vaccines in Avengers ‘Everyday Heroes’ Sponsored Comic:

      Marvel Comics has teamed up with Big Pharma giant Pfizer for a digital comic book featuring Captain America and the Avengers promoting the company’s coronavirus vaccines.

      The theme of the comic defines people who take the vaccine as “everyday heroes,” according to a Pfizer Instagram post from Thursday.

      . . . . the slogan: “Everyday heroes don’t wear capes!”

      “But they do wear a small bandage on their upper arm after they get their latest Covid vaccination — because everyday heroes are concerned about their health,” the comic concludes.

    • #103781

      This is interesting!? What is the wisdom from our nurses and pharmacist on this?

      (Natural News) Did you know that protecting yourself against covid hospitalization is as simple as flushing your nasal cavity with mild saline water?

      The latest research shows that a saline nasal wash performed twice daily for 14 days beginning within 24 hours after symptoms appear was found to reduce the risk of covid hospitalization by eight times.

      “This is simplest the latest peer-reviewed study showing that a simple saline nasal rinse with nothing else, is effective against the virus. This would apply to any other virus or bacteria as well, based on the mechanism of action. It’s also extremely safe.”


      • #103783

        It certainly is safe, and couldn’t hurt… when looking at risk vs benefit consideration…..the risk is next to nothing and the potential benefit is very good… spray away! But if symptoms are more than just sinus drainage and congestion or if someone had a high fever, bad cough or shortness of breath, I wasn’t willing to risk their health with the saline spray  alone and would instead start the protocol of Dr. Zelenko or the AFLDs.

    • #103556

      Looks like they are starting to spin the propaganda machine to start vilifying the Jews, just like in the US the left is starting to call all Christians the “radical nationalists”……people will fall for it, especially after the rapture there will be no established Christians around to refute it. Since Iran blames Israel for literally everything, I figured they would also blame them for the rapture and use that as an added reason for the attack of GMG.

      Don’t get me wrong, there can be some evil people who have Jewish lineage or even consider themselves secular Jews like Soros and Yuval Harari (schwab’s evil little todie) but this video attacking them collectively is like saying all Christians are like any of the famous Christians who have been less than Christ like, I can think of a lot of names but you get the gist.  It worries me because there is legitimacy for the concern about the vaccine, and I am confident that there is plenty of nationalities implicated in the development. My guess would be the WEF, UN and the Bilderburg group.

      Strangely it may be a blessing in disguise to the left behind……if they suffer events and death from the vaccine during the trib, it would likely be considered a relief in the midst of the wrath of  God and the cruelty and persecution of the antichrist…….  all things work together for good, to those who love God and are called according to His purpose. :yes:

    • #103564
      So Ready


      I appreciate your input.

      The video is not spinning anything, but depicting a collection of facts.

      Many of them saying in the video are jewish themselves.

      Please, let me know if there is any evident spin in that video.

      According to what I gathered, the WEF has been leading the last 2 and a half year’s BS.

      That Schwab is from a Rothchild (Evil jewish dynasty, majority of new world order BS is from them) mother and a Nazi father, by current definition he is a jew.

      I am not saying that everything bad is jewish, but many are.

      These jewish villains are Waaaaaay over represented considering of their numbers.

      But I am trying to say is

      Until the last part of the tribulation the corporate jewry are anti Christian in nature.

      And the current Judaism is not based on Torah but evil talmud.

      The talmud is basis of the jewish supremacist.

      In that psychopathic book teaches gentiles are human form of beast/cattle.

      Since gentiles are not actually humans like themselves, they (jewish faction of gloablists and some regulars) can do anything without much guilt.

      Gentiles are here for serving jews.

      Also, allegedly in that dirty book, “Jesus said to him: He is punished with boiling excrement.”

      Do you know the book of Daniel is banned in Israel’s many (maybe all) religious universities?

      Because once they read it, it is very easy for them to figure out Jesus is the Messiah.


      Many Christians in the US have a wrong impressions of jews.

      After the Cross, there is no gentile or jews but we (saved) become one New Man.

      Evidently we are not to discriminate jews but we need to treat them just like any other human beings. But I noticed many of us are displaying, whether you recognized it or not, unmerited favoritism and voluntary servitude toward the jews. There is no biblical basis for that since God is no respecter of persons. Please, do not quote ” I will bless those who bless you, and whoever curses you I will curse; and all peoples on earth will be blessed through you.”



    • #103578

      So Ready,

      I find your post offensive and unnecessary to this forum.


    • #103581

      Many villains today are Jewish, but many are gentile as well.  It’s a human problem.  I’d say God has blessed the Jews greatly (while also disciplining them severely), and it’s up to each individual to use their talents for good or evil.  And it’s no wonder the enemy seems to take great pleasure in twisting some of God’s chosen people to serve him.

      How are we to view and treat the Jews?  Romans 11 gives some crystal clear guidance.  That isn’t subservience — it’s God’s word.


    • #103608

      I think people that are evil are just that…..individual evil persons….they don’t need to be “Jewish” villains etc…  just like bad apples in the Christian faith, and we have more than a few, don’t need to be labeled Chrisitian villians……evil is evil and no race, color, creed or people have more of a claim to it than any other….imho

    • #103601
      So Ready


      Please, elaborate further on “Romans 11 gives some crystal clear guidance. That isn’t subservience — it’s God’s word.

      Because I don’t see crystal clear guidance there.

    • #103605

      I’ll try to explain what I mean by calling out what I think these are some of the key points in that chapter:

      verse 1: God has not cast away Israel

      verse 11: God is working to save them, and gave grace to us as part of the plan.

      verses 16-18: We were grafted in and are not to boast (or think that we’ve replaced them).

      verse 23: God can and will graft them back in again.

      verse 27: God will take away their sins.

      verse 28: There is currently conflict due to the gospel, but they are still beloved.

      verse 29: That is unconditional.

      verses 30-31: We were shown grace and should do so to them.

      verse 32: This is all part of God’s plan.

      Takeaway for me (what I think is crystal clear): there may be conflict at times, but they are precious in God’s sight and all unconditional promises stand, and the conditional ones will be fulfilled when they turn to Christ. Refer again to verses 16-18 — we are not to boast or think for a second that we have replaced them, but rather, as verse 18 makes clear, be grateful that we are grafted in. I’d argue part of that also extends to not tearing them down. Remember how God judged Babylon and Assyria, both of whom He used as instruments of His discipline, but then they went too far. That many (but not all) of Israel are in a current state of unbelief is irrelevant. God sees the end from the beginning and we’re called to respect that and not cast an ill light on the people he has chosen. Sure — disagree when they do something wrong, but the way I think most of us are reading the recent posts seems to go beyond that. It brings to mind many of the arguments put forth by those promoting replacement theology, which is so starkly wrong on so many levels that it makes you wonder what else those promoting it got wrong. Few things in christian circles make me more angry than this dangerous and patently wrong man-made theology.

      On a personal level, this brought to mind something I hadn’t thought about in years. Back when I was in early middle school years, my sister was into competitive figure skating. We spent a lot of time at the rink, and I would go through this path in the woods to a playground in the same complex. One day two boys asked me if I was Jewish and I said no and kept walking. Next thing I know, I had rocks landing near me, but I wasn’t hit. I kept going and got away from it. Because two kids did something wrong was that cause for me to hate them? Of course not! Likewise, like I said before, I’m sure the enemy takes special glee in turning some Jews to evil (Soros, for example).

      I also think of how David responded to Saul. Saul repeatedly tried to kill him, but David still respected the king and would not lay a hand on the Lord’s anointed. I think that was more out of love for God than Saul. The analogy breaks down after that because David replaced Saul, while the church does not replace Israel, but the point is still there.

      For me, Matthew 5:37 and especially Jude 1:9 also come into play here, but I can see where some wouldn’t agree with that.

    • #103607

      And … did you notice this

      There was always a remnant of believers that were chosen, elected, selected down through the ages.


      5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.


      Those elected to eternal life obtained it and those not elected stay blinded


      7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

      8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto this day.

      10 Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway.

      11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.


      The olive branches were cut off for those Jews who didn’t believe and then the Gospel was  given to the Gentile nations (to form the church) who believed and were grafted into the olive tree. But God is not finished with the Jews … 1/3 (who are chosen) will be grafted back in during the tribulation period and will enter the millennium kingdom.


      17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;

      18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.

      19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.

      20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:

      21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.

      22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

      23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again.

      25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

      26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

      27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

      28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father’s sakes.


      Even though the invitation is whosoever will … sinful man would have never chosen God because man loves darkness rather than light so God had to reach down and showed His mercy on us and He did the choosing.

      29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.


      And we are grateful that God opened up the invitation of eternal life to the gentile nations (the church)

      30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:

      32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

      33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!


      More Calvinism 101

      Notice the order in this verse … it doesn’t say they believed and then received eternal life.

      Acts 13:48

      And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

      Other translations say appointed to eternal life believed.

      This is why I believe in Calvinism far too many verses in the New Testament that talk about appointed, chosen, selected, ordained etc to eternal life.  And no … I don’t believe in the Tulip points.  But I am fond of the Daisy flower. :mdrmdr:  (sorry inside joke).

      Pastor Chuck Smith founder of Calvary Chapels and Charles Haddon Spurgeon (called the prince of preachers) also taught Calvinism and used Scripture to present their case.

      God chose the Jews to be His people

      God chose Jacob over Esau

      God chose the Virgin Mary to house the body of Jesus

      God chose the 12 disciples (one, of course, was unsaved and of the devil but Jesus still chose Judas Iscariot to carry out the betrayal because someone had to do it.  And what does it say about Judas?  Matt 26:24  The Son of man goeth as it is written of him: but woe unto that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! it had been good for that man if he had not been born.)

      And God chose us too to be His Church.   And we are humbled and grateful … we still need to preach the Gospel  to everyone and pray for them because we don’t know who is going to get saved. That’s God’s business.


      John 10

      27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

      28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

      29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father’s hand.

      30 I and my Father are one.


      Per Got question

      What does it mean that God chose us before the foundation of the world (Ephesians 1:4)?

      In Paul’s letter to the Ephesians, he writes to help them understand who they are in Christ (Ephesians 1—3) and how they should walk as a result (Ephesians 4—6). In chapter 1, Paul identifies how God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit work together for the salvation of the believer, changing our identity from children of wrath (Ephesians 2:1–3) to sons adopted in Christ (Ephesians 1:5). He explains that believers are blessed with every spiritual blessing in the heavenlies in Christ (Ephesians 1:3) and then shows how God accomplishes that blessing for those who have believed in Christ (Ephesians 2:8–9). First, Paul makes the remarkable statement that God chose us before the foundation of the world (Ephesians 1:4).

      God the Father “chose us in [Christ] before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight” (Ephesians 1:4). The Father also “in love . . . predestined us for adoption to sonship through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will” (Ephesians 1:4–5). While the ideas of election (choosing) and predestination can be confusing, they are unmistakably taught by Paul. Believers are chosen or caused to be chosen (as per the middle voice of the aorist verb) before the foundation of the world. In other words, this determination of God took place before the world had even been created. Notice how far Paul is going to assert that this new, blessed position of the believer is not of one’s own doing. It began with God’s choice, and it shows that God is the basis of the believer’s blessing, not one’s own merits.

      – Fair Use –

    • #103619
      So Ready


      Thanks for your reply.

      You seem to imply that I am in the replacement theology camp. But I am NOT. If I was in then I probably would be in Post Trib camp.

      Also, Seem to imply that I hate Jews. But I DO NOT. I see them, unsaved Jews, as really lost since I know how hard religious Jews to be saved.

      I still believe we should be able to criticize whomever doing wrong. We still have a freedom of speech at least on the book.

      All I am advocating is that they are not special as far as Gospel is concerned, so we do not need to treat them with unmerited favoritism and extraordinarily positive bias.

      Even after your long explanation, I still do not see any crystal clear guidance there. All I could see is between God and gentiles and between God and Jews. We can learn from that. You probably derive from that and consider it as a crystal clear guidance.

    • #103621

      So Ready, to be clear, I wasn’t making either of those assumptions about you… in fact, I didn’t think either were the case and would have been surprised if they were.  My point there was the arguments are familiar, and thus likely to obtain a strong reaction.

    • #103622

      So Ready, Greg did not even hint that you are in the RT Camp, nor did he imply that you hate Jews!

      Please re-read Greg’s post for understanding. I felt it was excellent!


    • #103925

      “Those of You Who Think the Vaccine Kills People Can Use Me as a Test” If I die, you were right. If I don’t die, and have no ill effects, you were wrong, and should admit to it. Better yet, you should admit that you were misled, and tell the world who misled you, so other people can benefit by avoiding those fear mongers.”  

      AND ….

      – Bodybuilding Icon and Author Doug Brignole Passes Away At 62



      – Fair Use-

    • #103927

      Note .. the placement of the posts are going out of order on this thread .. so if you want to keep your comment center stage …  you have to press the reply button on the last post you see  in order to keep it relevant.

      Or better yet … we need Yohanan to close this one and to create the next Chapter … Good Grief .. it will be … Chapter 33 ?? :wacko:

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