Five Doves July 11th, 2021 Letters.

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    • #76080
      bgkimbr
      Participant
    • #76084
      Arthur
      Participant

      Just starting reading. There are some good articles here.

      One that I thoroughly disagree with is Angela’s first post. She references a study by NTEB that concludes that someone can take the Mark of the Beast and be forgiven.

      This was taught by the false teacher, Peter Ruckman and endorsed by his current proteges like Eugene Kim, Robert Breaker, Watchwoman 65, etc.

      This is an insidious teaching that will undoubtably be found by people in the Tribulation and cause many people to make a tragic decision that will cause them to spend an eternity in the Lake of Fire. This is compounded by the false Ruckmanite teaching that people in the Tribulation will be saved by faith + works.

      RUCKMAN TEACHES THAT MEN ARE SAVED IN DIFFERENT WAYS IN DIFFERENT AGES.

      He believes men were saved by blood plus works in the Old Testament, by faith plus works in the Tribulation, and by works alone in the Millennium. In Millions Disappear: Fact or Fiction? Ruckman says: “If the Lord comes and you remain behind, then start working like a madman to get to heaven, because you’re going to have to. … You must keep the Ten Commandments (all of them, Ecclesiastes 12:13), keep the Golden Rule (1 John 3:10), give your money to the poor, get baptized, take up your cross, hold out to the end of the Tribulation, wait for Jesus Christ to show up at the Battle of Armageddon, and be prepared to die for what you believe. In the Tribulation you cannot be saved by grace alone, like you could before the Rapture.”

      https://www.wayoflife.org/database/ruckman.html

      The Bible makes it very clear that anyone who takes the Mark of the Beast is going to be damned for eternity.

      Revelation 14:9-11

      9 Then a third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10 he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”

      Here’s an article that deals with the question:

      Can you be forgiven if you take the mark of the beast?

      Sorry to be so strong worded but this is literally a matter of life and death for millions upon millions of people.

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    • #76085
      Arthur
      Participant

      The video link given by Anthony Mak is eye opening, to say the least. Wow!

      His saying that Christians who do not bear fruits of repentance will be cast into the Tribulation period is absolutely false. The creeping legalism on 5 Doves is disappointing. :negative:

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    • #76092
      tenderreed
      Participant

      Preach it brother!

      TR

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    • #76093
      Geri9
      Participant

      Well … I’m a firm believer that a true Christian, once they are saved, will have and will show the fruit of the Spirit.  Because the fruit of the Spirit is the natural result of the presence of the Holy Spirit residing inside a believer. Philippians 2:13, “for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.”

      And what is the fruit of the Spirit?  Love, Joy, Peace, Long-Suffering, Gentleness, Goodness, Faith – Galatians 5:16-18.

      If a person claims to be “born again” and does not have joy in knowing Jesus and having the assurance you’re heaven bound, has no peace, struggles with faith on a daily basis, etc. then chances are … they only have a head knowledge believism (like the devil and demons)  “Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.” – James 2:19   and they need to recheck their “conversion” experience.  Most often they are still clinging to the world and the pleasures of it.  No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and money.  Matt 6:24.  Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.  II Corinthians 5:17

      There is a possibility that some people become backslidden but they would be living a miserable life and grieving the Holy Spirit.  I don’t know how that person could stay in that disobedient condition.  Perhaps that is why some are taken home  early? :unsure:

       

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      • #76102
        Arthur
        Participant

        I get what you mean. A person should display fruits of the spirit. I agree 100%.

        The poster said that they need to bear fruit of repentance. That seems to conflate with the false teaching that you must repent of every sin you commit or else you are not a true Christian.  It ends up being a backdoor works based salvation. This is very similar to the Calvinist false teaching of the perseverance of the saints. (Preservation of the saints is the correct biblical teaching.)

        Everyone grows in their Christian walk at a different pace. Some quickly and some very slowly.

        Anyway, the only requirement for the Rapture is being born again. Once justified, always justified.

        The insinuation is that if you have a bad day and do not repent properly of your manifold sins, you are in big trouble and in danger of missing the Rapture. That’s absolute false teaching.

        Repentance in Greek is Metanoia which means a change of mind. You need to change your mind who Jesus is and your current state of affairs. In other words, Jesus is the only Saviour and that you are a sinner in need of salvation.

         

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    • #76112
      JesusGirl
      Participant

      The Book of Romans should be read by more Christians, than all those false doctrines would be eliminated! Faith is what pleases Yahweh the most! As in Romans Chapter 4. Faith in Jesus that is!

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    • #76114
      Tammie
      Participant

      My two sense — I have met many individuals who “back slide” from their walk with Christ … they had repentant hearts and I truly believe that God is a God of Mercy and forgives. I also have walked a road that I am not proud of, but God was merciful to me, lifted me out of the darkness. I love Him more today than ever and my heart remains repentant as I choose to walk close to Him, feeding the spirit, doing what he calls me to do.

      Life is a daily struggle as we war not against flesh and blood but against rulers, authorities, the prince of this world, and spiritual forces of evil ….. putting on the whole armor of God daily is key to staying faithful. I do not hold to a works salvation, I believe you get all the Holy Spirit you will ever need at salvation, it is up to your will to allow Him to live through you. It is true that our salvation is a progressive living act, but that is because of our own lack of surrendering our will to His.

      As to the fruits of the spirit — Love, Joy, Peace, Patience, Kindness, Goodness, Faithfulness, Gentleness, Self-control — these are not always manifested consistently, in everyone, at every moment…. To prove this, just get in your car and drive down a very busy highway, during rush hour and watch what happens if you slow down to do the speed limit — how many folks will cut you off, honk at you, ride your bumper, and shout obscenities at you as they fly past you, how do you feel? Or if you are ever in a hurry to get somewhere and hit every red light or get behind that Sunday driver, how is your attitude? It has always amazed me the individuals who claim to have the fruits of the spirit and boast about it — are they exhibiting a humble, loving, and meek heart? :unsure:

      I will be the first to say I am not perfect by any stretch of the imagination, nor are the fruits of the Spirit exhibited daily, but I love my Jesus for what He did for me and pray that God allows me to be used by Him for His work until that trumpet sounds …. :prayer-hands:

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    • #76116
      Joe
      Participant

      Arthur, I mean no disrespect but you are again spreading misinformation about Peter Ruckman and Robert Breaker. In this case, you are also concluding NTEB advocates forgiveness post- MOTB.

      In all cases, not one of these teachers believes that and all have refuted the notion…many times. In fact, all have rebuked those like John MacArthur with a contrary stance. Read Peter Ruckman’s “Mark of the Beast” book for more detail.

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      • #76119
        Arthur
        Participant

        I never said that Peter Ruckman said anything in regards to the MOTB. I did use a direct quite from him to demonstrate that he believes that people in the Tribulation will be saved, at least in part, by works. This is a dangerous and heretical teaching.

        John McArthur, I agree, has stated that you can take the MOTB and be saved which is absolutely false. Probably has something to do with him being a Calvinist and believing the elect could take the MOTB.

        Both are false and dangerous teachings.

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    • #76118
      Geri9
      Participant

      I agree that the sanctification process (spiritual growth) takes time and some people mature faster than others.

      What I find strange is when someone says when they got saved they experienced no difference.  Nothing … no emotion … not even joy of knowing they were now heaven bound?   I just find that very odd … and is it a coincidence some of these same people also struggle with “once saved always saved”?  And this one person in particular I saw responded to this question    “One Word Definition of You” … and he said “lost”.  The poor guy is crying out and get this … only 2 people used the praying symbol and the other 6 people picked the thumbs up “like” button. Crazy eh?  Do they think he is just “joking”?

      Even King David said “Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation; and uphold me with thy free Spirit.”   Even David had the joy of the Lord and wanted it back.

      My cousin came across a drunkard in the streets and he was begging for money.  My cousin said I can’t give you money but I can share with you this … and gave him the Gospel.  That drunkard got saved and he was immediately no longer in a drunkard state and in his right mind.  Talk about a transformation.

      ok .. stepping down off  the soapbox …

       

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    • #76120
      tenderreed
      Participant

      Indeed, all struggle with their sin nature  and continue to fall short!

      God’s power is able to save when men cannot!  And God’s grace will lead us home!

      Again, to stop sinning against God is a primary motivation for my looking forward to the Rapture!

      Oh wretched man that I am!

      TR

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    • #76180
      Joe
      Participant

      Tribulational salvation will absolutely be faith plus at least one work – total and absolute faithfulness and enduring to the end, which means not taking the MOTB. This act of disobedience is very much a work. Once the Lord calls us up in the air, the dispensation changes and the rules are different. We are blessed beyond measure to live in this age and it’s about over.

      Multitudes will be saved, and it will be made clear to those who will call on the name of the Lord.

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      • #76185
        Tammie
        Participant
        1. Joe you mentioned “the rules are different.”  My preacher husband calls them “the rules of engagement”, my military son and daughter agree, as the tribulation saints will be in an even crazier day to day battle then we see now. It will mean their very survival to the end or a beheading, either way they win, but will fight daily.
          I too am thankful to be living in this age and our “hard stuff” is nothing in comparison as we are just witnessing a small taste of what’s to come. Satan, using BG and many others is working fast to kill humanity and destroy Gods creation— But GOD, almighty spoke and creation began, so too, once again He will only speak and all will be made new and the evil of this world will be NO MORE for eternity :yahoo: Our God is greater than all, the Alpha and the Omega and everything in the middle with no end. Let everything that has breath, praise the Lord! :prayer-hands:
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        • #76188
          Joe
          Participant

          Amen, Tammie. Beautifully said and my prayer would be for the Church to SEE these things around them as a shadow of Jacob’s Trouble. If they did, perhaps they’d work harder and cry for the lost.

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    • #76183
      Joe
      Participant
    • #76232
      Arthur
      Participant

      It has always been by salvation by Grace, through Faith, through Christ alone.

      No one has ever deserved salvation. It has always been by God’s Grace.

      No has ever earned their salvation. It has always been by Faith.

      There is only one Saviour and that is Jesus Christ.

      That is the way it has always been and the way it always will be.

      To say that someone could be saved, even in part, by works is heretical.

      I thoroughly reject the Ruckmanite teaching that says that Old Testament Saints were saved by faith + works, Tribulation saints will be saved by faith + works and people in the Millennium will be saved by works alone.

       

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