August 2, 2020 at 5:59 pm #21048TaureauchienParticipant
So i’ve been involved with a debate/argument with a couple friends of mine. 1 of which is a rather close friend. Our mutual friend is gay, and he supports his right to have equal rights. They both want me to vote for gay rights yet i stand firm with my ‘God first’ decisions.
I was thinking about this earlier and wondered about ‘taking one for the team’ by striking a deal. If they both were to accept Christ (and I mean for real not just randomly say the words) then i would cast my next vote for him. My reasoning behind this is it could possibly be the only way I’d ever get them to do so, and i’ve tried many times. But once they did, then its up to God from that point on and I did my job….. but had to vote against what i believe in to do so.
My question is, do you think I’m betraying God via a vote in order to save 2 souls?
August 2, 2020 at 8:02 pm #21055Geri7Participant
I know you mean well in wanting to see your gay friend(s) saved … but it is never right to do wrong in order to get a chance to do right. For example if some poor person needs money … would you go and rob a bank in order to give that money to them?
The Bible clearly says the homosexual lifestyle is an abomination to God and He destroyed 2 cities as an example for a reason. So I don’t think the Lord would be pleased if you vote for gay rights in order to persuade your friends to get saved. They alone have to willing want to make that change themselves … we can’t put conditions “if they will accept Jesus … then we will do this for them”.
I Cor 10:31
Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God.
Deep down homosexuals know what they are doing is wrong because God has placed a conscience inside each one of us … so homosexuals willfully have chosen their lifestyle. Romans 1 says “Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened …..”
I had a chance to witness to 2 gays back in 2014 – one worked in Sears as a cashier and the other worked at the Dollar Store. They both knew they were living in sin – all I said to both of them was … Jesus loves you and He came to this earth to die on the cross for our sins. We need to confess our sins to Him and asked Him to be our Lord and Savior and then we will have assurance of heaven … when we die. Both of them said their parents and family rejected them and they perked up when I said “Jesus loves them”.
The way I see it … if a homosexual gets saved … then the Holy Spirit will convict them that their lifestyle is wrong and they will turn from it. I’ve heard a few youtube testimonies of former gay and lesbians … once they got saved … they no longer wanted to be in that lifestyle any longer.
I Cor. 6:9-11
Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.
If you already shared the Gospel, then just continue to pray for them.
August 2, 2020 at 11:03 pm #21067
August 2, 2020 at 11:15 pm #21068
This seems to encapsulate and highlight why Grace is better than the law!
Being obedient and keeping the law for the laws sake because the law compels us, is admirable.
But grace all the more highlights that faith, hope and love all abide and render their own reward. But uncompelled love is indeed the greatest of the three!
August 3, 2020 at 12:28 pm #21175TaureauchienParticipant
I agree with all that, and that has been my mindset. was just thinking that altering course to save 2 souls would be understandable. because robbing a bank to feed someone still doesnt get them to God just a full belly. If i can get them to choose God (even with stipulations) then the Holy Spirit is still there and doing what He does in their hearts. And only God can work it out where he is no longer gay or my other friend sees it as wrong
August 3, 2020 at 5:43 pm #21200Geri7Participant
I guess you will have to pray about it.
I personally could never vote for gay causes. I had to deal with a brazen lesbian when I worked at Nabisco. Her purpose was going from one Fortune 500 company to the next promoting the lifestyle and pushing for them to receive benefits. She got fired from American Express and then Nabisco eventually fired her. Her cubicle contained filthy signs “make sodomy legal”, etc. One time she sneakily wanted me to type up some papers for her … I thought it was pension work instead as I was typing I realized it was gay party junk. I brought the papers back to her and dropped them on her desk and said sorry, I thought this was real work … no way am I typing up your gay party/meeting agenda. Another time I was in a conference room on lunch break … it was bad weather so I stay indoors and was working on a counted cross stitch picture. She comes into the room to bother me … she wanted to know what I was making. Ironically I was working on this … she back-pedaled so quickly out the room in fear … she never bother me again.
August 4, 2020 at 11:34 am #21257YohananModerator
August 4, 2020 at 11:50 am #21258
August 5, 2020 at 2:53 pm #22376David W. RocheModerator
Our only “rights” come from God, not government. When people refer to gay “rights,” they are really asking for preferential treatment for a protected class. God is no respecter of persons, and to bargain over salvation (which is of no value anyway) is to leave the impression God would be willing to bargain over sin. Hard as it is to navigate the situation, you should not leave open to door to compromise on right and wrong. Sin is still sin, and you are not the one to arbitrate. “Gay rights” don’t exist in a vacuum. What is really going on is that the door is closing on the acceptance of Christianity in the public (or perhaps in private). This is a spiritual war, and you cannot negotiate with the devil.
August 5, 2020 at 4:08 pm #22436
August 5, 2020 at 4:20 pm #22448
August 5, 2020 at 4:26 pm #22453gratefulforgraceParticipant
I’m really touched not only for the love and concern expressed by Taureauchien for the souls of their friends, but also by the sensitive, kind, and thorough replies given on here- honestly, I am truly seeing our Lord and Savior’s heart in each of you and I praise God for that!
I agree that although your intentions are noble, your currently contemplated option does not sound in line with scripture to me…more than anything I highly suggest that you personally get before the Lord in prayer and His Word, seeking God’s wisdom specifically for this situation.
Remember that God loves your friends and wants them to choose to spend Eternity in a loving intimate relationship with Him much more than you want that for them- and it is obvious that you do want that so much so that you are willing to do something you feel would be a sacrifice in order to turn them to God. Think about what Jesus did- He fulfilled the Law and paid our debt through horrendous pain and suffering. He already did it- “it is finished”… not only that, but God also made Himself even more vulnerable to pain when He chose to give us the choice to accept or reject what He did…to agree with His Way, or to go our own way that is the path of destruction and eternal separation from Him…
You hurt to think of them hurting…you hate that they are suffering in their bondage to sin…you hate that they don’t have peace with God, they don’t have God’s peace, they don’t have the assurance of His constant presence and love right there within them right now- you hate that they rely on their own ability to muddle through life moving forward only to be going towards a cliff leading to hell…
But God Himself lets them choose, so you have to also…you have to let go enough to trust the Lord’s ability to reach them by the power of His Spirit and only do and say what you know He leads you to…you know speaking the truth in love is of God, you know living out your faith- allowing Jesus to live through you, the Holy Spirit to produce God’s fruit in you, you know loving unconditionally is pleasing to God…but healthy boundaries are wise too- guard your heart, hate evil…God says what is good and what is evil…He Himself will give you wisdom in your relationships and your own life choices…
Remember we need a humble heart before God in order to truly seek Him, to really know Him, to fully accept Him…we have to agree with what He says about Himself and about ourselves and about our relationship to Him…real salvation is from the Holy Spirit’s conviction of sin that reveals a need for a Savior a need of forgiveness…there are no magic words, nothing can be forced or manipulated…we can not do this for someone else no matter how much we want to…
God looks at the heart, isn’t impressed with shallow lip service (going through the motions)…it’s between Him and each of them individually and anything other than sharing the good news and allowing the Lord to love through you, no matter your good intentions, is only going to cheapen God’s grace and the intimacy of Salvation- He creates a new creature, He makes one spiritually alive, one becomes born of God- born again- this is all supernatural- we cannot cause it, force it, manipulate it…but absolutely pray for Him to do so- in His time, His way- He knows them better than you do and is able to reach them…just be a willing vessel for Him to work through – and allow Him the choice to use some other way, or someone else entirely to help in revealing Himself and The Truth to them…
Sorry for rambling so much, I just was really moved by this whole thread and really appreciate all of y’alls time and effort and kindness…I believe there is a true expression of God’s Church right here right now! He is so good! May He bless each of you tremendously! Maranatha!
August 5, 2020 at 4:33 pm #22461
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