Turkey’s hook in the jaw v.2

A Pretribulation Bible Study Group Forums Main Forum Turkey’s hook in the jaw v.2

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    • #74784
      Yohanan
      Moderator

      Carry on!

      Original thread here.

    • #74801
      Arthur
      Participant

      Every time I see this thread title I think of the song, Turkey in the straw. ;-)

      • #74802
        Geri9
        Participant

        :mdrmdr:  The theme song for the old Good Humor trucks!

        How fitting they called us all turkey’s because they sure charged an arm and a leg for their ice cream bars/sandwiches and ice pops.  But as a kid we didn’t know prices and @ the lake … the Good Humor truck was station near the entrance way and we wanted ice cream so badly and my mom would say “he didn’t wash his hands” to discouraged us from wanting his and promised she would buy us ice pops or ice cream sandwiches later at the grocery store before heading back home.   One time I couldn’t wait for that ice cream sandwich and while walking past the truck I yelled out  “why aren’t you washing your hands”?!   My mom quickly grabbed my arm and walked faster to get on the beach. :mdrmdr:

    • #74805
      tenderreed
      Participant
      1. Now your asking people why they haven’t washed themselves with Jesus!

      Haven’t changed much…

      TR

    • #76936
      Arthur
      Participant

      Turkey is currently being devastated by wildfires. Another blow to their sluggish economy.

      https://www.zerohedge.com/weather/apocalyptic-scenes-wildfires-consume-turkey

    • #77839
      Blue
      Participant

      Turkey making a move when we leave Afghanistan?

      -Fair Use-

    • #77854
      Arthur
      Participant

      Turkey wants to form and lead a pan muslim coalition that will be made up of non-Arab Muslim countries.

      Interestingly enough, that’s exactly what we see in the Ezekiel 38 coalition that comes against Israel.

      Things are falling into place at a rapid pace.

    • #77857
      Blue
      Participant

      At the 4:40 mark Steven talks about the Taliban and Turkey will be aligning to make it look like Biblical prophesy is coming to pass.  He has mentioned this in other videos about other political happenings.  How do you think this fits into things?  Are they trying to make it look like Biblical prophesy is coming to pass and fulfilling prophesy at the same time?  Do you think the jabs were made to make it look like prophesy was coming to pass as the MOB? Or is it just a depopulation plan? Is this all to bring in the fake messiah? I have been trying to figure out if these wars are all planned out ahead of time, will it be that way with the surprise attack on Israel?  Or will it really be a surprise? I heard him say in another video that the elites have a plan for Iran to bomb Israel in 2024. That doesn’t seem to fit my timeline.

    • #77859
      Blue
      Participant

      Fair Use on that above video!

    • #77860
      Arthur
      Participant

      It could be the plan for the fake evil NWO to look like they are fulfilling Bible prophecy as the bad guys. That might fool a lot of CINOs when the real evil NWO overthrows the fake evil NWO.

      Interesting thought, Blue! :mail:

       

    • #77861
      Blue
      Participant

      I don’t quite get it, but hopefully I will be gone soon and won’t ever need to know.

      • #77862
        Arthur
        Participant

        Well, I believe that the fake evil NWO will be defeated but not until after the Rapture. So, for us believers, it really doesn’t matter other than showing the lateness of the hour.

        So, we can watch and pray. :good:

    • #77863
      Geri9
      Participant

      What about the poppy opium supply? :calvin   Do you think Erdogan wants to get his greedy little hands on that to make some money?

      • #77896
        Arthur
        Participant

        Yes. Afghanistan is a gold mine, literally. A wealth of minerals and that illecit heroin poppy trade. I think that’s why China and Turkey are angling to get in there.

        Also, China wants a way to access the Holy Land and when Turkey, Iran and the USA fall to the wayside, that’ll open up a path for them and that’ll be through Afghanistan.

        • #77898
          Geri9
          Participant

          Does the Silk Road highway run thru Afghanistan right now or is Afghanistan just a detour shortcut to get back on to the main high way?

          • #77901
            Arthur
            Participant

            China and Afghanistan do share a small border. Perhaps they could build a road through there. It would be a difficult engineering feat, that’s for sure.

            https://www.insider.com/afghanistan-china-tiny-46-mile-border-what-it-is-like-2019-6

            • #77902
              Geri9
              Participant

              Very informative article.   Yeah I see what you mean about some difficult trails to trek thru … especially on the higher level of the mountainside … during snow, ice or fog season. :wacko:

    • #84253
      Arthur
      Participant

      Erdogan, the brutal dictator of Turkey, is at it again. :negative:

      This could stir up more bad blood between Turkey and Israel.

      https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/outrage-after-turkey-arrests-vacationing-israeli-spies-photographing-erdogans

    • #84305
      Tammie
      Participant

      Was there “good” blood ever??? :mdrmdr: :mdrmdr: B-) Sorry, couldn’t resist! The empire is still trying to rise. Where is Luke when you need him? Anybody seen Hans? Ok, again sorry … :whistle:

      • #84308
        Arthur
        Participant

        Actually, Turkey and Israel got along well in the 1950s onward. It’s only with the rise of the tyrranical Erdogan that things have gone south, so to speak.

         

    • #84368
      Susan
      Participant

      Yes indeed…In 1949 Turkey was the first Muslim majority country to recognize the State of Israel!

    • #84847
      Arthur
      Participant

      Hyperinflation is now ravaging Turkey. Erdoganomics simply doesn’t work.

      Eventually this will lead to wide scale unrest and traditionally brutal dictators like Erdogan have gone to war to distract the populace. (The external enemy trick.)

      So, this could be one more thing that leads Turkey to attack Israel in the Gog Magog War.

      https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/hyperinflation-turkey-wine-prices-15-one-day-chicken-and-cheese-10

    • #84851
      Yohanan
      Moderator

      The world is in such a mess of the likes no one has ever seen. Surely our Redemption is any moment now! :prayer-hands:

    • #84868
      regina
      Participant

      are you saying Turkey is ready??? :groan

       

    • #84872
      Yohanan
      Moderator

      :mdrmdr: :mdrmdr: :groan

    • #84875
      Arthur
      Participant

      The Turkey is ready and waiting. All dressed up and nowhere to go but the Mountains of Israel to be judged. ;-)

    • #84879
      Heidi
      Participant

      The turkey is all dressed and ready:

    • #86548
      Arthur
      Participant

      Turkey’s lira has plummeted to about 15 to the dollar. It has lost half its value since the start of the year.

      https://www.mtv.com.lb/en/News/International/1241038/Turkish-lira-plummets-to-new-low,-dragging-central-bank-to-the-rescue

      It’s just a matter of time (likely not much longer) before greedy Erdogan turns to attacking Israel to distract the populace from the imploding economy.

       

    • #86550
      tenderreed
      Participant

      Travail of nations as evil has replaced God!

      Fear bringing anger and hatred!

      The fall of man and civilization will be common to all!

      TR

    • #86830
      Arthur
      Participant

      Turkish Lira now 18 to the dollar!

      • #86869
        Arthur
        Participant

        Oops, that’s to the Euro.

        It is currently 16.48 Turkish Lira to the $USD.

        Going to need a good parachute for this freefall.

    • #87253
      Arthur
      Participant

      To use a poker analogy, Erdogan is going all in.

      After the Turkish Lira (TRY) had sunk as low as 18 to the dollar, it rose to 11 and then slid back to 13.

      Erdogan is making big promises and if the Lira begins to slide again, he’ll likely be done.

      Unless, he starts a war?

      https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/erdogans-whatever-it-takes-moment-comeback-story-lifetime-or-giant-headfake

    • #87446
      Patricia N.
      Participant

      Turkey Halts All Stock Trading As Currency Disintegrates, Central Bank Powerless To Halt Collapse:

      Another day, another collapse in the Turkish lira, only this time there was a twist: as the hyperinflating currency implodes, Erdogan has finally had enough of the relentless pummeling, and is starting to shut down Turkey’s markets.

      Erdogan then responded to the economic pain caused by rising prices by ordering a 50% increase in the minimum wage next year, guaranteeing even more inflation as it will increase production costs that will see inflation accelerate by a further 2% to 8% next year, Erkin Isik, chief economist at QNB Finansbank, wrote in a note to clients.

      And then, a stunning new development: as Bloomberg reports, all trades on Turkey’s benchmark stock index Borsa Istanbul 100 were halted after a sudden plunge in stocks – which until now were trading gingerly higher as one would expect in a time of runaway inflation – triggering a market-wide circuit breaker.

      Trading of equities, equity derivatives, and debt repo transactions were “halted temporarily” at 4:24 p.m. in Istanbul after the index reversed gains and fell as much as 5%, according to a public filing. Trading was scheduled to restart at 4:54 p.m, however, we are confident it will only lead to more selling.

    • #87447
      Patricia N.
      Participant

      Sorry, I forgot the source:  https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/turkey-halts-all-stock-trading-currency-disintegrates-central-bank-powerless-halt-collapse

      Also, in the article I found this:

      For what it’s worth, our view is clear and what is happening is very much charted: it is our view that Erdogan is purposefully hoping to spark economic collapse and hyperinflation…… to deflect from the historic pillaging he and his cronies have done over the years. And the only way to do that is with a broad economic collapse that he can pin on “foreign intervention” and in the ensuing chaos, quietly sneak out of the country. A few coup or two should help.

      • #87454
        Geri9
        Participant

        Its all coming together beautifully.  He and Putin are no spring chickens … they are gonna have to make their move soon!  We are in the … “its now or never scenario in their quest to power grab and invade …”

    • #87464
      Arthur
      Participant

      Yeah, it is definitely coming together. Either Erdogan invades Israel in desperation to try to save his iron grip on power or his successor does.

      Whatever the case, the climate is ripe for the Gog Magog War.

    • #90928
      Arthur
      Participant

      Good article on Turkish and Israeli relations. Essentially, Turkey wants everything and wants to give nothing.

      Turkey wants Israeli gas to be routed through Turkey rather than directly to Europe. Turkey wants to be the middle man and profit it from it. Some of these profits will go to fund Hamas and other terrorist organizations that murder Israelis. :negative:

      https://stgdesktopcore.jpost.com/middle-east/article-694269

    • #94140
      Arthur
      Participant

      Is Erdogan really Erdogog?

      He meets many qualifications.

      Recep Tayyip Erdogan, Prime Minister of Turkey, comes from Georgia. When he visited Georgia on August 11, 2004, he said: “I am a Georgian too, my family is a Georgian family that migrated from Batumi to Rize!” When you render Erdogan’s statement into the language of Ezekiel, then this is what you get: “I (Gog, paramount chief of Turkey) am a Georgian too (from the land of Magog); I have a special relationship with the area my family originates from and migrated from Batumi in Georgia (probably Meshech) to Rizen in Turkey (probably Tubal).

      President of Turkey (Former PM of Turkey), Recep Tayyip Erdogan, the Gog of Ezekiel 38 and 39?

    • #94263
      Arthur
      Participant

      An informative video on Turkey and Israel in regards to the proposed natural gas pipeline:

    • #94865
      Arthur
      Participant

      Well, as terrible as Biden is, he did do  something that Trump pointedly refused to do.  He recognized the Armenian genocide. Now, it is time for Israel to do the same. Preferably before April 24th which is the Armenian genocide memorial day.

      This will certainly enrage Erdogan but it needs to be done.

      https://m.jpost.com/international/article-701274

    • #97527
      Arthur
      Participant

      Russian oligarchs are evading sanctions by parking their yachts and money in Turkey. Turkey is bankrupt and desperate for the cash infusion. $250,000 will buy a person Turkish citizenship.

      Turkey is playing a very dangerous game here by trying to be Russia’s friend and yet still stay in NATO. Sooner or later they are going to get burnt.

      Turkey evades Western sanctions by welcoming Russian oligarchs

      • #97539
        Geri9
        Participant

        Looks like Turkey is playing Russian Roulette ? They need and will use each other and both their armies will get defeated soon when they charge up the Golan Height mountains.

        • #97575
          Arthur
          Participant

          I do sincerely believe that it’ll be Turkey that leads the Gog Magog invasion. Not because I think I’m so smart (newsflash: I’m not. ? ?) or a desire to be contrary but because it seems to be where the evidence leads.

          However, Russia could certainly be involved as a bit player as they have some military assets in Syria.

          One of the reasons is that Turkey under the Ottoman Empire committed some absolutely horrible crimes in which they were never punished. (At least on this earth.) Upwards of 1.5 million people were murdered in Armenian Genocide (1915-1923)  and the government of Turkey vehemently denies this to this very day. They have even spent countless billions of dollars to try to strongarm other countries into not recognizing the Armenian Genocide. Absolutely disgraceful.

          Not to mention the murder of up to 1.5 million other people groups such as the Greek Orthodox, Assyrian Christians, Syrian Orthodox, etc. Some of termed it the “perfect genocide.” In other words, a a crime that they seemingly unpunished for. I do believe that there will be earthly justice (Gog Magog destruction) as well as Justice at the Great White Throne Judgement.

          In fact, it was in the pogroms of 1895-96 that the term Holocaust was first used in reference to a genocide. The New York Times reported on an Armenian Genocide taking place. Hundreds of thousands of Armenians were murdered at that time. Interestingly enough, Holocaust is actually a Greek word in reference to a burnt offering.

          Anyway, the wicked Turkish Government is on a very dangerous path. I strongly feel their Sauron like gaze will soon turn to the Holy Land. The 100th anniversary of the end of the Ottoman Empire is in 2023 and Turkey is still bitter about it.

          Oh and this is not to say that all Turkish people are bad. There are many good Turkish people and many have been jailed or even murdered for speaking the truth about these genocides. There were also many good Turkish people who helped protect or shelter Armenians or other people groups from destruction. It is their governments that have been wicked and especially under Erdogan who is certain very Gogesque.

          For reference and these are conservative estimates and don’t even list all of them, as unbelievable as that may sound:

          img_3_1650313650439

          • #97580
            Arthur
            Participant

            Good grief. OCD kicking in. :wacko:   I do rather dislike this 5 minute limit to edit posts. :negative:

            Some of termed it the “perfect genocide.” In other words, a a crime that they seemingly unpunished for. I do believe that there will be earthly justice (Gog Magog destruction) as well as Justice at the Great White Throne Judgement.

            That should read:

            Some have termed it the “perfect genocide.” In other words, a crime that they were seemingly unpunished for.

            Note: I don’t actually have OCD but it does run in my mother’s side of the family. I may have a touch of it. ;-)

    • #97577
      Arthur
      Participant

      Sorry, that should read The New York Times reported on an Armenian Holocaust taking place in 1895.

      https://historynewsnetwork.org/article/1868

      Unfortunately,much of the American media still thinks that the Armenian genocide is subject to debate. Until recently, many American newspapers wrote about the “alleged” Armenian genocide or felt obliged to give equal weight to Turkey’s denial of this grotesque crime.

      To counter such historical inaccuracy, in June 1998 the Association of Genocide Scholars unanimously defined this event as the 20th century’s first genocide. Two years later, 126 Holocaust scholars, including Elie Wiesel — awarded the Nobel Peace Prize for his lifelong effort to bear witness to genocide — published a petition in the New York Times affirming “the incontestable fact of the Armenian genocide.”

      Denial of the Armenian genocide didn’t always exist in this country. Before World War I, Americans knew exactly what had occurred. During the 1890s, American reformers launched a human-rights campaign to protest repeated massacres of the Armenian people. In September 1895, the New York Times headlined a story as “Another Armenian Holocaust.” During 1915, that paper published 145 articles about the mass murder of the Armenian people, describing the massacre as “systematic, “authorized” and “organized by the government.” In 1918, Theodore Roosevelt called it “the greatest crime of the war.”

      The rest of the world also knew what had happened. In May 1915, the Allies conceived of the term “crimes against humanity” to describe the Ottoman government’s massacres of the Armenian people. When the Polish jurist Raphael Lemkin coined the term genocide in the 1940s, he said that his definition was based on what the Armenian people had suffered.

      So what cast such a cloud of uncertainty over the Armenian genocide?

      The short answer is: oil and military bases.

    • #97582
      tenderreed
      Participant

      I also have maintained that Turkey was key to bible prophetic events!

      However it plays out, God sees and knows!

      Despots of every ilk always find a common enemy to hide their own shortcomings!

      TR

    • #97668
      Geri9
      Participant

      I didn’t know where to place this interesting article … its about Putin demanding a piece of something famous from Jerusalem back … its the Cathedral of the Holy Trinity Church. :popcorn   Can’t you just picture this scenario in the works … of Putin (leader of Gog/Magog) justifying the invasion over the Golan Heights   B-)

       

      After conflicting decisions by Israeli prime ministers, Putin demands ownership of church compound in Jerusalem be officially transferred to Russia

      By Lauren Marcus, World Israel News
      April 17, 2022

      Prime Minister Naftali Bennett must immediately follow through on a promise given to Russia by his predecessor, Benjamin Netanyahu and transfer ownership of a Jerusalem church to Moscow, wrote Vladimir Putin in a strongly worded letter to Israel’s premier on Sunday.  The timing of the demand is significant, as it came shortly after Foreign Minister Yair Lapid harshly criticized the Russian invasion of Ukraine, accusing Moscow of war crimes.

      But after Israeli-American Nama Issachar was imprisoned for traveling through a Russian airport with a small amount of cannabis in her possession in 2020, then-premier Netanyahu agreed to formally return the site back to Moscow.   Israeli land registry records were changed to state that the compound belonged to Russia later that year.  However, after taking office, Bennett reportedly ordered that the decision be reversed and the mater once again be determined by the Supreme Court.  Up until recently, it had appeared that a Russia was willing to wait until the case played out in an Israeli court, but Lapid’s comments made have needed Moscow’s patience.

      Israel also recently voted to remove Russia from the UN’s Human Rights Council, a move which sparked Russian officials to summon the Israeli ambassador in Moscow for a dressing down.

      The Alexander Nevsky Church, also known as the Cathedral of the Holy Trinity, is a prominent holy site for the Russian Orthodox Church, located in the Christian Quarter in the Old City of Jerusalem.

      During the Ottoman Empire ear, the site was registered as belonging to the “Russian Kingdom”.  In 2017, Russia requested that Israel officially transfer ownership of the church and its compound to Moscow.

      Initially, the Israeli government held that such a change in ownership would need to be investigated and decided upon by the Supreme Court.

      “Now we are fighting for the return of the Compound, and it is very difficult: we were almost there, we worked for 5 years, we found all the historical documents, but the situation with Ukraine occurred, and Israel behaved as it often does – playing with both sides, playing ping pong with everyone, Sergei Stepashin, who is currently visiting Israel and manages Russia’s properties in the Middle East, told media.

      On Monday, Israel had yet to respond to Putin’s demand.

       

      – Fair Use –

    • #97669
      Yohanan
      Moderator

      I do sincerely believe that it’ll be Turkey that leads the Gog Magog invasion.

      I think it’s entirely possible that they may instigate it but it has to be Russian military might that does the dirty work else it wouldn’t take the Hand of God to save Israel. Nukes, tanks, bombers, fighter jets, troops and so much more Russia has in abundance. Turkey is not that big of a threat. Their army only ranks 14th in the world and is smaller than that of Vietnam, Egypt, Myanmar, Indonesia, and Thailand. None of those would be that great of a threat to Israel.

      • #97670
        Arthur
        Participant

        We’ll see how it all plays out. I could very easily see the USA, for example,  betray Israel and join up with Turkey.

        The destruction of the USA would certainly get the attention of the world and people would know that God alone did it.

        You also have to remember that Israel was the guinea pig for the vaxxxes. Imagine if a large number of their military and security forces suddenly became incapacitated and at that moment, the Palestinians had a massive uprising. Add in Hez-blah launching thousands of rockets and Israel would be in serious trouble. Couple that with a massive invasion from the north, south, east and west…

        Don’t need Russia to play a major role  for any of that.

         

    • #97671
      Yohanan
      Moderator

      The world is used to seeing Israel defend herself against all of those uprisings. No one bats an eye. Throw a truly sizable military complete with nukes at her and that will get the attention of the entire world.

       

      Not sure why you are so adamant about Russia, whom almost all commentators think is Gog/Magog, not being so. But as you said, we shall see.

      • #97672
        Arthur
        Participant

        It’s  a horrible mangling of the text that started in England when Russia was competing with England for Central Asia in the Great Game. Framing Russia as the big bad Magog sold well as Russia was already seen as the enemy.

        The USA picked up the torch in the 20th century. It was easy to once again frame Russia as Magog and the bad guy with shoddy newspaper escatology.

        The majority of Bible prophecy “experts” have maintained that view because they are lazy, sorry to say. If you actually read the text in Ezekiel 38, it clearly doesn’t support that.

        We will see how it plays out. I’ll keep my eye on Turkey.

    • #97675
      Yohanan
      Moderator

      That’s an astonishing statement! I’ll be sure to let JD, Skip Heizig, Greg Laurie, The group at Bible Believers, Jan Markell, and all the rest of them who are seasoned eschatologists know that they are lazy. I’m sure they’ll appreciate it.

      • #97682
        Arthur
        Participant

        No need to be sarcastic, thanks. ;-)

        Those are all well respected bible scholars who love the Lord and have solid doctrine.

        However, in this one area, they have just accepted the standard escatological narrative without actually reading and studying the text, it would seem. In particular, Ezekiel 38.

        Martin Luther was a brilliant theologian in many areas but he was Amillennial. If he would have not blindly accepted the standard escatological narrative of his day, he would have come to a very different conclusion by simply reading the text.

        So, one should not blindly accept the standard escatological narrative without first reading the text and drawing logical conclusions from them. I think we can all agree on that. :good:

        • #97685
          Yohanan
          Moderator

          And no need to be calling well respected teachers lazy either. I think it’s uncalled for. Just because your assumption, and let’s remember that that is all it is is an assumption, differs from theirs does not make them lazy. I am not opposed to you having a difference of opinion but let’s keep the accusations that you cannot prove out of it please. :good:

    • #97680
      Greg
      Participant

      And my personal favorite for study — Andy Woods.  Although to be fair he doesn’t say Magog is Russia, he says Rosh is (and no, not because of the way it sounds).  If I recall correctly, he has Magog as the various -stan countries.  He also talked about how we’d be seeing more of the Turkey is in charge theory.   I think he made some fairly strong statements about that, but I need to go back and listen again. I’m still working my way through his  Zechariah series, but Mid-East meltdown series on Ezekiel is next up for me (happened to listen to one lesson, but need to start from the beginning).  Maybe tomorrow seeing as it’s so timely.

      • #97683
        Arthur
        Participant

        That seems reasonable. Thanks, Greg. I definitely respect Andy Woods and his teachings so I’ll check it out. :good:

        • #97693
          Greg
          Participant

          looking at my downloads, it was middle east meltdown 8 and 9 I heard.  I think mostly the end of 8 and into 9 where he addressed it.  Going to start from the beginning on that one today.

    • #97684
      Arthur
      Participant

      Here is a good article talking about how Russia has absolutely nothing to do with Gog and Magog:

      In December of 2017, the state-run Turkish newspaper Yeni Safak ran an article calling for a united “army of Islam” to invade Israel. More recently, Turkish president Recep Tayyip Erdogan has also emerged as one of the most vocal opponents of President Trump’s decision to recognize Jerusalem as the undisputed capital of the Jewish State, and has even said that Muslims should embrace the cause of Jerusalem “to the death.”

      By all accounts, Turkey has now emerged as one of the primary antagonists of Israel in the Middle East, which may come as a surprise to many people. Historically, Turkey has been an ally of Israel and the U.S., and one of the more “moderate” Muslim nations in the world, with a western-style democracy.

      Turkey’s friendlier posture towards Israel began to shift in the late 1990s and early 2000s. At this time, the Islamic factions in Turkey gained a firmer foothold in Turkish politics, which eventually led to the election of now President Erdogan to the Prime Minister’s office in 2002. Erdogan is a fundamentalist Sunni Muslim through and through. He disdains democracy. One of his primary goals is to re-establish Turkey as the leader of a revived Ottoman Islamic Empire. Since coming to power, Erdogan has systematically silenced, jailed, or executed most of his opponents in the military, media, business sector and in academia.

      Many of these recent developments in Turkey are a bit unsettling. Nevertheless, it is still important to recognize that the rise of Turkey as a global power does harmonize with certain key Bible prophecies related to what will take place in the Middle East before the return of Yeshua. In Ezekiel 38-39 Ezekiel specifically predicted that Turkey would become one of the primary geopolitical enemies of Israel in the last days.

      Many people are familiar with Ezekiel 38-39. They know this prophecy speaks of a military invasion of Israel led by a figure known as “Gog of the land of Magog.” Unfortunately however, many prophecy teachers today erroneously connect Gog to Russia. Part of the reason for this is because in both the New American Standard and New King James versions of the Bible, “Gog” is not only said to come from “the land of Magog,” but is also further described as “the prince of Rosh, Meshech and Tubal” (Ez. 38:2). Because the word “Rosh” sounds similar to Russia, and because “Meshech and Tubal” sound similar to the Russian cities Moscow and Tobolsk, it has often been assumed in conservative prophecy circles that Gog must be a Russian.

      In reality however, most scholars now recognize that Ezekiel 38:2 actually describes Gog as the “chief prince of Meshech and Tubal,” not the “prince of Rosh, Meshech and Tubal.” In other words, the Hebrew term rosh, which means, “head, chief, or foremost,” is modifying Gog’s title as a prince (nasi). It is not the name of a particular place, which in turn, rules out any possible association between Gog and Russia. The idea that Gog is actually the “chief (rosh) prince (nasi) of Meshech and Tubal” is found in the ESV, NIV, HCSB, TLV and JPS translations of the Bible.

      Now that the association between Gog and Russia has mostly fallen out of favor among scholars, there is near unanimous agreement in scholarly Bible commentaries and Bible atlases that in Ezekiel’s day, Magog, Meshech and Tubal were all located in what is now modern Turkey.

      For example:

      The Zondervan Illustrated Bible Dictionary states, “Magog (possibly meaning “the land of Gog”) was no doubt located in Asia Minor [Turkey] and may refer to Lydia.”

      Historian Edwin Yamauchi has also written, “Since the late nineteenth century, Assyrian texts have been available which locate Meshech (Mushku) and Tubal (Tabal) in central and eastern Anatolia [Turkey] respectively.”

      This critical prophecy in Ezekiel 38-39 may explain why Turkey has recently become one of the primary enemies of Israel on the world stage. Now of course, we do not want to jump to conclusions and say that Erdogan must be Gog! However, those of us with an interest in the signs of the times should definitely keep a close eye on Turkey. Based on Ezekiel’s prophecy, it is hard to avoid the conclusion that key prophetic events will transpire in Turkey in the days ahead.

      https://www.jewishvoice.org/read/article/rise-turkey-and-ezekiel-38-39

      *For fair use and educational purposes*

    • #97689
      Geri9
      Participant

      And let me present what’s REALLY going on …. :mail:

      Here is the map of the who who’s in the G/M players.  It will be Russia along with Turkey and the rest of the radical Islamic nations who team up and join in. In 2017  Putin said that “whoever becomes the leader in this sphere (A.I) will become the ruler of the world. And he has made sure he has the most A.I. toys. Erdogan’s military does not match Russias … not even close … its laughable.  I have posted the difference in their military might a few weeks ago.

      -Under Putin’s leadership he has already called many of the “stans” countries to fight in Ukraine.

      – Putin has said recently The Golan Heights doesn’t belong to Israel but to Syria and since Assad has appointed Putin to guard Syria … Putin believes The Golan Heights is his.

      – Putin now wants a piece of Jerusalem … the Cathedral of the Holy Trinity Church  back.

      – Putin supplies the fuel to the European nations and very soon it will be Israel as the major supplier.

      Ezekiel 38:15 “you will come from your place out of the FAR NORTH, you and many peoples with you” (see also Ezekiel 38:6, 39:2).

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    • #97695
      Derrick
      Blocked

      I hesitate making a comment on this thread because I feel like I must be crazy for getting in between the volley – everybody knows you don’t stick your head up in the game of whack a mole but here I go dum dum that I am lol.

      As far as the likely identity of Rosh, Gog or Magog et al.

      I consider often scriptures like Ezekiel 28:11-16 where the prophet speaks of the “king of Tyre” who was at one time in the “Garden of Eden”. So we readily recognize that this could not have been just a human king of Tyre but was likely referring to an unclean spirit,  some interpret this entity to be Satan himself.

      So with this set as a principle,I have considered that maybe Gog and Magog are the same way, spiritual entities that empower or control physical leaders of men, tares who are not influenced by the Gospel of Christ, but by the kingdom of darkness.    That being said, I think that they are certainly mobile and not limited to a nations borders – could Gog be based in Russia? Yes.  Could the spiritual force of Gog set up shop just across man’s borders in Turkey? I guess so. But I would certainly think they are regional and when the Bible describes Gog and Magog I don’t think that these dark spiritual forces will set up shop and operate out of Australia for example, but we should look for them from the regions around Russia and Turkey.

      So anyway, all I’m saying is that I’ve got my eyes on all the players over there knowing that any of them can be under the influence of those dark principalities and not getting hung up on the physical borders so much, since my understanding is that the Bible may be referring to spiritual principalities that are the puppet masters over there.

      • #97707
        Geri9
        Participant

        Oh I agree with you that a spiritual dark force(s) will lead these nations to attack Israel.  No doubt about it.   This current “world system” is the devil’s.  When Adam sinned the devil took over the “stewardship” of the earth.  Then when Jesus fasted 40 days/nights … we read in Matthew 4

        8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;

        9 And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.

        10 Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.

        And we read Daniel’s prayers in this passage were heard immediately but were delayed with the answer for 20 days due to spiritual warfare fightings.

        Daniel 10: 12 Then said he unto me, Fear not, Daniel: for from the first day that thou didst set thine heart to understand, and to chasten thyself before thy God, thy words were heard, and I am come for thy words.

        13 But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days: but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia.

         

        And in Revelation 2: (The church of Pergamos  is in Turkey)

        12 And to the angel of the church in Pergamos write; These things saith he which hath the sharp sword with two edges;

        13 I know thy works, and where thou dwellest, even where Satan’s seat is: and thou holdest fast my name, and hast not denied my faith, even in those days wherein Antipas was my faithful martyr, who was slain among you, where Satan dwelleth.

        14 But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication.

        15 So hast thou also them that hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitanes, which thing I hate.

        16 Repent; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth.

        17 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.

        —————-

        My point is … we can’t rule out one nation from the Gog/Magog attack.  Putin wants a piece of Jerusalem now and he wants the Golan Heights too. And who knows what else.  And Erdogan wants the spoils and oil, etc. too.

        Satan’s goal is to destroy man before they can get saved hence he loves war and he will gather / influence as many nations as he can to come against God’s chosen people.

        And in Zechariah 12 … God said He will make Jerusalem a cup of trembling …

        All eyes are on Israel and we are seeing right now the nations are wanting Israeli food, water, gas, oil, technology, etc.

        2 Behold, I will make Jerusalem a cup of trembling unto all the people round about, when they shall be in the siege both against Judah and against Jerusalem.

        3 And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces, though all the people of the earth be gathered together against it.

        • #97716
          Arthur
          Participant

          Certainly we can’t entirely rule out one nation from being part of the coalition but we can read the text from Ezekiel 38 and clearly see that it has nothing to do with Russia. The historical record also does not warrant such an assumption.

          Russia is not Rosh. Russia is not Magog. Magog was not the Scythians. Russians were not descendents of the Scythians. Sadly, some unreasonable assumptions were made to try to pound that square peg in a round hole and read Russia into Ezekiel 38.

          I will go over these systematically over a number of posts, hopefully today, starting with Rosh.  :good:

          • #97718
            Yohanan
            Moderator

            And yet there are others who very much disagree with your opinion. I would rather you not continuing to post entry after entry after entry to support what is a theory. You point has been loudly made. This is supposed to be a discussion, not a sales event. If reading Ezekiel 38 was so such unshakable evidence of your opinion then why are there so many opposing views? And please do not make another accusation of laziness since you do not know that. Here is yet another of many opposing views.

             

             

            First: God has not chosen to give us all of the details regarding the end times.

            Second: as we read about Gog and Magog in Ezekiel 38-39, we discover that understanding the biblical material is quite difficult. I’m going to do my best to synthesize these biblical teachings as simple as possible.

            Third: I have used modern names for the territories involved. When we’re talking about “Gog and Magog” we’re talking about a leader in the land of Russia. Note that 500 years from now, if Christ delays, “Gog and Magog” from the North (Russia) will have another name that fits another time.

            Fourth: the main reason that God encourages us to study prophecy is to lay a foundation for holy living. We need to have our lives cleaned up and ready when the trumpet sounds.

            Fifth: “Live as if Christ is coming back in the next 10 minutes. Plan as if he’s not coming for another thousand years.”

            Many wonder if Russia will have any part to play in the last days? The answer is a resounding “yes.” We find the answer in Ezekiel 38-39.

            Identifying Gog and Magog, the Kings of the North and South
            Ezekiel 38:1-2: The word of the Lord came to me: “Son of man, set your face against Gog, of the land of Magog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal;

            Magog, Meshech, and Tubal were all sons of Japheth, who was one of the three sons of Noah. Jepheth and his family migrated to the area of modern-day Russia (Genesis 10:2-3).

            Gog is a person who rules over the land of Magog (Russia). Magog means the “Prince of Rosh.” (Gog) Rosh is the old root word for the land of Russia.

            God informs Gog and Magog in Ezekiel 38:15, “You will come from your place in the far North” (the Hebrew word means “the uttermost part of the North.” What’s north of Jerusalem? Moscow. What is north Russia? Nothing. Meshech is the old name for the capital of Western Russia, which is known today as Moscow. Tubal is identified as a city in Siberia.

            Gog (Russia) is the King of the North. The King of the South is an Arab-African coalition.

            Ezekiel 38:5-6 identifies the rest of the nations that are dragged into battle between Gog and Magog, versus the Kings of the South:Persia, “Cush and Put will be with them, all with shields and helmets,also Gomer with all its troops, and Beth Togarmah from the far north with all its troops—the many nations with you.”

            Persia is a reference to modern-day Iran.

            Cush describes present-day Ethiopia and the black nations of Central Africa.

            Put and Libya are located in northern Africa.

            Gomer is the people who settled in Germany.

            Beth Togarmah is Asia Minor and Turkey.

            Note: these nations will basically align with Russia in battles against the King of the South and later on the Antichrist.

            Sometime before the beginning of the seven-year tribulation, the King of the South (an African-Arab coalition described in Daniel 11) moves to invade Israel. The African-Arab coalition initially has the upper hand, but is ultimately defeated by the King of the North (Russia).

            After a short time of peace, seeing an opportunity to enhance their domination, Gog and Magog (Russia and its Leader) proceed with their own invasion of Israel. However, God has no intention of allowing Russia to take over the land of Israel. The Antichrist intercepts Gog and Magog and defeats them. Note that two battles are described here, separated by at least 2,500 years.

            Gog and Magog in the Bible
            Ezekiel 38-39 is what is known in biblical hermeneutics (interpretation) as a double fulfillment. The first battle is the maneuverings of the nations during Ezekiel’s time. The events of the first battle foreshadow the second battle describing the same movements predicted by Ezekiel which will occur in the latter days just before the seven-year tribulation begins. Speaking with hyperbole (a literary tool that exaggerates to make a point) God describes the devastating events of the battle between Magog, Gog and the Antichrist.

            Ezekiel 38:1-4: ‘This is what the Sovereign Lord says: I am against you, Gog, chief prince of[ Meshech and Tubal. I will turn you around, put hooks in your jaws and bring you out with your whole army . . .

            Ezekiel 38:17-22: “At that time this is what will happen in that day. When Gog attacks the land of Israel, my hot anger will be aroused. In my zeal and fiery wrath, . . . I will execute judgment upon him with plague and bloodshed.”

            Ezekiel 38:22-39:11: “I will pour down torrents of rain, hail stones, and burning sulfur on him and on his troops. . . The fish of the sea, the birds of the air, and the piece of the field, every creature, and all the people in the face of the earth will tremble at his presence. . . I will pour out torrents of rain, hail stones, and burning sulfur on him and on his troops . . . On that day, I give will give Gog the burial place in the Valley of those who travel east toward the sea it will block the way of travelers, because Gog and all his hordes will be buried there. So it will be called the Valley of Haman Gog.” And

            We see in these verses what seems to describe a nuclear holocaust. Fire and brimstone fall from the sky. The earth shakes. The faces of the invading soldiers melt like hot wax. It takes Israel seven years to decontaminate the land. The burial of radiation contaminated men and women injures even more.

            Thousands of invading soldiers lie unburied. God sends the birds of the air to pluck the flesh right off their bodies (Ezekiel 38:14 and 39:1-7. This sounds just like the grisly feast of God in Revelation 19 at the Battle of Armageddon.

            Again, this passage is a double fulfillment. From Ezekiel’s day until the coming of the Romans in 70 A.D. Israel was decimated by nation after nation thus fulfilling Ezekiel’s prophecy regarding the future decimation of Israel. Then, we recognize that the above passages parallel the book of Revelation and the horrors of Armageddon.

            Now we understand that these passages are no longer hyperbole. This is the second fulfillment of Ezekiel’s prophecy. The previously mentioned passages are literal words which describe the horrible events of the last days While Russia is destroyed by the Antichrist just before the seven-year tribulation begins, Gog and Magog will rearm and take part in the war of Armageddon.

            As a result of the war between the King of the North and the Antichrist, Israel is open to signing a seven-year-peace treaty with the Antichrist to protect them from other invasions. After three and half years the Antichrist breaks the peace treaty by invading Israel and all the horrors of the book of Revelation break forth over the earth. During the last days, God brings the armies of the Antichrist, Russia, the Middle East, the Arab-African coalition and China together in the Valley of Megiddo for the Battle of Armageddon.

            As Jesus returns he laughs at his enemies (Psalm 2). At the Second Coming Jesus enters the fray and destroys the forces of the Antichrist, the King of the East and the king of the North as recorded in Zachariah14:12-13:

            “This is the plague with which the Lord will strike all the nations that fought against Jerusalem: Their flesh will rot while they are still standing on their feet, their eyes will rot in their sockets, and their tongues will rot in their mouths. On that day people will be stricken by the Lord with great panic. They will seize each other by the hand and attack one another.”

            For hundreds of years, students of Bible prophecy have wondered what kind of plague could produce such instant ravaging of humans? Until the advent of the atomic bomb, such a thing was not humanly possible. But now, everything Zechariah predicted can come true instantly in a thermonuclear exchange!

            By the way, at the Second Coming, the nonbelieving Jews of Israel will see the nail prints in Jesus’ hands, feet and side and realize that they crucified their Messiah. It will break their hearts. Many Jews will turn to Christ.

            Zechariah 12:10: “And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit] of grace and supplication. They will look on me, the one they have pierced, and they will mourn for him as one mourns for an only child, and grieve bitterly for him as one grieves for a firstborn son.”

            During that time God the Father invites anyone willing to come to Christ to “Kiss the Son” which is the Old Testament way of saying, “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved.” Many Jews will to the Christ.

            Gog and Magog: The Two Suppers of God at the End of Time
            Revelation 19:17-18: “And I saw an angel standing in the sun, who cried in a loud voice to all the birds flying in midair, ‘Come, gather together for the great supper of God, so that you may eat the flesh of kings, generals, and the mighty, of horses and their riders, and the flesh of all people, free and slave, great and small.”’

            The Wedding Supper of the Lamb is described in Revelation 19:9: “Then the angel said to me, ‘Write this: Blessed are those who are invited to the wedding supper of the Lamb!”’ This is the marriage feast when Jesus, as the Bridegroom, takes His church for his Bride. It is a tremendous time of fellowship and praise.

            There is a word picture here and we all have a choice. We can enjoy the supper with Jesus or we can be the supper.

            Revelation chapters 20 through 22 wrap up the story with the destruction of Satan and his followers, the 1000 year reign of Christ on earth, and the new Heaven and the new Earth.

            By the way, people often ask does the United States fit in prophecy? The United States is not mentioned anywhere in the Bible. However, there is a reference in Revelation to an eagle which protects Israel during the last times. Of course, the eagle is a symbol for the United States.

            Revelation 12-14: “The woman was given the two wings of a great eagle, so that she might fly to the place prepared for her in the wilderness, where she would be taken care of for a time, times and half a time, out of the serpent’s reach.”

            Of course, the United States has always been a friend and supporter of Israel. By God’s grace, we will stand by their side. If we ever turn against Israel we will suffer the same fate as the Antichrist and his forces.

            Original article here.

            FAIR USE

    • #97715
      Arthur
      Participant

      Here’s an informative video that goes against the standard escatological narrative, which is thankfully changing. :)

      THE RUSSO-UKRAINIAN war has prompted many to ask whether the prophesied war of Gog and Magog is upon us.

      This week, we dive into Ezekiel 38 and 39 to explain why Russia is not part of the prophecy. Magog, and all of the nations mentioned in the northern coalition, were located in what is modern-day Turkey.

      More important, however, is the phrase “the uttermost parts of the north.” We explain why this is not a geographical reference—at least, it doesn’t refer to a place in the natural realm.

      Unraveling Revelation: Gog, Magog, and the Uttermost North

    • #97720
      Geri9
      Participant

      Truly not understanding “why” you’re overlooking Russia as not wanting to invade Israel?   Do you have Russian blood?

      Here’s Putin as top dog in this meeting.

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      Why rule out Russia from invading Israel?   What gives?   Do you feel Putin doesn’t need anything from Israel?   He already is demanding the Holy Trinity Church in Jerusalem is his and the Golan Heights … “Russia condemned the Israeli occupation of the Golan Heights and said it does not recognize Israel’s sovereignty in the region.”    And do you think the bear  is just going to sit back in his rocking chair eating his Goldilocks oatmeal and not do anything when Israel starts supplying his customers (European nations) with fuel?   And then when Damascus gets ruin … He is going to get out his guitar and sing to Assad … Que Sera Sera  under my GREAT military watch your beloved capitol is now a ruinous heap … “I’m sorry, oh so sorry”  :whistle:  ????

    • #98264
      Geri9
      Participant

      Why Russia will ALSO invade Israel for the spoils …. B-)  

      Thanks to Blue who cracked the case wide open … with her blue’s clue of missing piece of the puzzle … please scroll to the 24:00 minute marker point to 30:55 (about 7 minutes) you will find the reason … :whistle:

      – Fair Use –

    • #98502
      Yohanan
      Moderator

      Carry on here.

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