April 18, 2021 at 1:46 pm #72588
So this is sad in so many ways, to have spent so much of his life in study of scriptures but to never have understood who Jesus is and have a real relationship with Him. While in looking this article and story up more, I came across a page on FB called Friendly Atheist, because they posted this article and were congratulating him on his newfound enlightenment. I read several posts on the page and my heart became very sad for them. Many of them have been hurt in church, as many of us have, because churches are full of sinful human people and I get that but they abandoned faith because of this which is heartbreaking..
Others on the page are full of science, arrogance and hatred for the people of God and this also made me sad because they are soo deceived and everlearning but never coming to the Truth….will the Rapture even convince some of these? I wonder….but we should pray collectively for them, and if you have the nerve, go to the page and engage in the conversation….fair warning though, it is full on warfare there, not for the timid….lol but prayers either way that some that converse will be successful in planting seeds and leading some to Christ. Time is short siblings…..Dad’s about to send Jesus to come collect us to go HOME!
April 18, 2021 at 2:13 pm #72590
I must live under a rock because I never heard of him ….
My take is those who depart from the faith … never were saved to begin with so they are showing their true colors now … its part of the global apostasy signs of the end of the age. The fact that him and others are bragging about their anti God beliefs … sounds like they already made up their minds and want to persuade many others to join them … they will believe the strong delusion and will worship the AC.
II Thess 2:10-11
And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
II Thess 2:3-4
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
The Greek word translated “rebellion” or “falling away” in verse 3 is apostasia, from which we get the English word apostasy. It refers to a general defection from the true God, the Bible, and the Christian faith. Every age has its defectors, but the falling away at the end times will be complete and worldwide. The whole planet will be in rebellion against God and Christ. Every coup requires a leader, and into this global apostasy will step the Antichrist. We believe this takes place after the church has been raptured from the earth.
– Fair Use –
April 18, 2021 at 2:25 pm #72591
I had not actually heard of him either, lol ….just saw the article posted in one of the five dove letters, and I agree Geri, it’s part of the apostasy and also a part of the pressure that is currently on the church in general. Some people will never be able to handle not being part of the “popular group” or having to endure the name calling, ostracizing and the all our attack that Christians are starting to face. We are certainly not in the majority any more….and being called homophobic, transphobic, gullible, simple minded, racist, zenophobic and the most popular ones of “narrow minded, judgmental hypocrites”. It will only get worse, which is why we are told to put on the armor….we are gonna need it.
April 18, 2021 at 3:19 pm #72593Todd TomlinsonParticipant
Its all part of the great falling away and Paul wrote about it:
2 Thessalonians 2:3
The New King James Version
Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition,
It’s sad to me yet exciting at the same time – excitement coming from the fact that we’re so near to the Rapture, sad in that so many are turning away.
This article adds credence to the message of 2 Thess 2:3:
Fair use, educational purposes only.
We’re going home… where the streets are golden…
April 18, 2021 at 3:42 pm #72594
yes, thankfully we are going home!! and I have to finish the song Todd……
we’re going home, where the streets are golden and every chain is broken….oh I want to go, oh I want to go home where every fear is gone, Im in Your open arms…where I belong…Home.. Blinded eyes will finally see, the dead will rise on the shores of eternity, the trump will sound, the angels will sing..”hallelujah, hallelujah…I am going home
April 19, 2021 at 9:01 pm #72640LEWParticipant
I was under the impression that 2 Thess 2:3 is the Second Coming of Christ, not the Rapture.
It is covered here: https://www.gotquestions.org/difference-Rapture-Second-Coming.html
April 18, 2021 at 7:13 pm #72603
Interesting verse! I always believed we would not know the AC!
Yet Israel has crowned a fake messiah and as we witness a falling away of many not enduring till the very end! Hmmm
Many in the church have not forsaken Christ but are not sober minded, enduring sound doctrine, nor looking for His appearing! This is also a part of falling away!
April 18, 2021 at 7:30 pm #72605
April 18, 2021 at 7:42 pm #72607
April 19, 2021 at 9:24 pm #72641Patricia N.Participant
It’s my opinion that many people are offended by something that happened at church or with church people, and that turns them away from Christianity. I feel that offence is one of Satan’s greatest weapons, something that we have to be aware of and defend our hearts against.
Notice how these days everybody is offended by everything.
April 19, 2021 at 9:36 pm #72642
April 20, 2021 at 3:16 pm #72687David W. RocheModerator
[quote]I was under the impression that 2 Thess 2:3 is the Second Coming of Christ, not the Rapture.
It is covered here: https://www.gotquestions.org/difference-Rapture-Second-Coming.html
2 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; II Thessalonians 2:2-3
I agree with the link explaining the differences between the rapture and the 2nd Coming. But let’s look closely at the full context of 2 Corinthians 2:3
The Corinthians were greatly disturbed from hearing that they are already in the Tribulation and their loved ones had not been raised from the dead.
What is “the Day of Christ” and is it different from “the Day of the Lord”?
The “Day of Christ” has a positive connotation, which “the Day of the Lord,” does not.
The Old Testament terminology was “The Day of the Lord,” which was a time of God’s judgment being poured out upon the world. When some read “The Day of Christ,” they infer that it means “the Rapture,” and assume that Paul is saying the catching away will not take place until after the Antichrist is revealed (and the Tribulation started!). They were not upset about the rapture happening; they were worried they had missed it!
The word “apostasia” means “departure,” and can be translated either as a physical departure (the rapture) or as a figurative departure (rebellion against God). I lean toward it speaking of our physical departure, as Bibles printed before the King James Version indicated, because if “apostasia” is interpreted by its modern cognate “apostasy,” then we have to ask which “falling away” Paul was referring to? There have been instances of rebellion against God since the beginning, and the people of Corinth would have no way of being sure when the final one might take place. It would render Paul’s assurance and comfort to them meaningless. Only if Paul was telling them not to worry about the Tribulation having started because we were still here would it even make sense. Otherwise, someone could come in and say, “Yes, but that was then; this is now,” and that is precisely what the advocates of a mid or post tribulation rapture theories attempt to do. Moreover, the original language does not indicate “a” falling away, but the article is “THE” departure (or falling away). Whatever it is, it is a singular, distinctive event.
Why would the KJV translators insist that the word be translated as “falling away,” rather than departure? They were instructed to follow the theology of the Church of England in their word choices and may have wanted to plant the idea subtly that disagreement with that institution constituted “apostasy.” Another example is the use of the word, “Church,” rather than “Congregation.” That was politically motivated.
[quote]Why Was the Word Church Used in the King James Bible?
Few people today know why the word “church” was used in the King James Bible instead of the word “assembly” or “congregation.” History clearly recorded that when King James authorized the translation of the Bible in 1611, he made 15 rules which the translators were bound to follow in making the translation. Edgar makes this observation of King James:
“He was not an inconsiderable literary figure, and his astounding knowledge of Scripture is reflected in his writings on political theory, poetry, theology, and the Bible. While not yet twenty years old, King James wrote a “Paraphrase on the Revelation of St. John.
King James believed in the divine right of kings, and held that this right was hereditary, and that the king was responsible to God alone, and not to his subjects. As “Defender of the Faith” and head of the State church, he came into opposition with the Puritans on the one hand and the Catholics and their papal claims on the other. In his struggles with both he was motivated by a combination of religious and political considerations.”(11)[/quote]
For the record, I love the KJV; I just recognize there were some instances where bias in translation is evident.
April 20, 2021 at 5:51 pm #72688
First time I heard this question was in the 1980’s when life on planet earth was really normal and thought this was an unusual question to ask … now advance to 2021 … I can now see why the Lord did ask the question since so many that professed to be Christians are now departing from the faith.
Luke 18:8. …. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?
And just a word of encouragement
This morning I had 2 vendor problems to deal with and they were 2 simple questions but 4 employees could not help me and they either kept giving me other numbers to dial or kept switching me to someone else and then dead air and being disconnected. I felt like I was calling dial-a joke with all the time spent and still didn’t get anything resolved. Tomorrow … is another day and hopefully I will get someone with a brain … or …. maybe not … perhaps the rapture will happen! But I thought why am I going through this crazy ordeal … they should know the answers to these simple questions. Well… I got my answer 2 hrs ago … I was at the grocery store and there was this really nice man behind me in the check out. The store has this monopoly game going on … you get tickets for how much food you buy and sometimes its for free items or coupons or cash to win or prizes. One year I won a small amount of cash so I know the game isn’t a hoax just to get you to buy more groceries. Anyway the cashier asked if I was playing the game … I said I haven’t signed up for it yet but if I see the tickets are worth while … then I will. The guy overheard me and said you can have my tickets. I thought how sweet AND someone that is actually talking and not standoffish in fear of covid. I knew the Lord wanted me to hand him a Bible tract. I had on hand one called … God’s Bridge to Eternal Life … so I had it handy as I waited for his groceries to be scanned. When he handed me the game tickets … I said thank you so much and here is something for you to read. He seemed very interested so that was the icing on the cake and made my day brighter. Now I know why I was going through the wringer earlier. Last night I opened the refrig and saw the empty shelves and said to my dog … boy do I have to get groceries tomorrow. So the demons knew I was going out to the store and since its a small town … they knew this man was going to the store … I really believe those who get saved have the spiritual mark of God on their foreheads and the demons knew God was going to time it just right for us to meet up and they were trying their hardest to make my day so miserable and not to go out at all.
So stay encouraged and cheer up if you’re going thru over the top hardships … the Lord is working behind the scenes as we pray for our loved ones and friends to get saved.
April 21, 2021 at 7:47 am #72717YohananModerator
April 21, 2021 at 9:12 am #72722
April 21, 2021 at 9:15 am #72723
April 21, 2021 at 2:07 pm #72740
I had a nagging thought about this and it turned out to be right. I knew I had heard of this “desiring God” ministry. It’s John Piper, the well known Calvinist. Maxwell was a writer for this ministry.
Trust me on this one, Calvinism will burn people out. (I have met a few.) The trouble is that you never know that you are really part of the elect. How do you think you know? You gotta produce the works. So, you get trapped on the works treadmill. It makes you miserable and angry (as this Maxwell alluded to) as you never feel good enough.
This is the danger of Calvinism. The poison of the tulip.
April 21, 2021 at 2:39 pm #72741
Calvinists believe in perseverance of the saints which is an absolutely false doctrine. It sounds correct but it actually is an insidious deception.
Preservation of the saints, is a biblical doctrine. God upholds our salvation and it is not contingent on our performance.
The similarity of the words can be used to trip people up but there is a big, big difference.
Here is a thorough refutation of the Calvinist “perseverance of the saints.”
April 21, 2021 at 3:27 pm #72746
April 21, 2021 at 3:33 pm #72748
John Piper has his problems … I just read this on another forum 2 days ago … (Abraham Piper), the adult son of John came out and said …
“…I berate evangelicalism, fundamentalism. It’s a destructive, narrow-minded worldview. And one of the most destructive, narrow-minded aspects of it is that its adherents feel as if they are the entirety of Christianity rather than the tiny sliver of it that they actually are.”
To which Jesus said…”
“Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. 14 [a]Because narrow is the gate and [b]difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.” Matt. 7:13-14
– Fair Use –
Back in the 1990’s on lunch break I used to listen to Pastor Chuck Smith (founder of the Calvary Chapels) via tiny portable Sony walk man radio with cassette tape. (I still have it … it still works. ). Chuck believed in being chosen. One sermon he said he believes Jesus chooses who will be with him in heaven. His reasoning was … just like man picks who he wants to marry on earth … Jesus does the same in heaven. He then said I think its very fair because he chose me. Then you could hear his congregation laughing. He said you will know who is chosen by if they accept the gift of eternal life or not.
We have “whosoever will” “God loves the whole world and not willing that any should perish” but you also have MANY verses that say “chosen, elected, selected before the foundation of the world, foreordained …” I don’t think I will understand this part of the doctrine until I reach heaven.
April 21, 2021 at 3:48 pm #72750
I know we have free will … I also noticed some people have many opportunities/chances to get saved and they eventually do … is that because a loved one were praying over them and the Lord answered their prayers? While others only get 1 chance and if they reject … bam they remain lost? My mom worked in the public school district and kept moving around from job to job … she didn’t do this on her own … the administration did the placing. She didn’t mind because she got to meet new workers every 2 years or so and had more opportunities to witness to them all. After she shared the Good News … if they mocked the Gospel they were gone. One guy laughed and said he rather be in hell with his drinking buddies … a week later he died of a massive heart attack. All the others she witnessed to … various teachers, custodians, secretaries, etc. not to long after they heard … BAM … they died too. She felt so bad and was afraid to witness knowing this sad trend would continue but felt the Lord leading her to continue on so she did …
April 21, 2021 at 3:50 pm #72751
Here is how I see it:
That’s because it’s both. The problem with Calvinism is they put God into a box and on a time continuum. The flaw in their thinking is that they don’t consider that God is outside of time and created time.
Therefore, in God’s eyes, there is no logical fallacy in God choosing you before the foundation of the earth (election) and you accepting the free gift of salvation.
To me, since God is in the eternal present, these things happen simultaneously.
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