RAPTURE CHAT v.4

Interesting and telling!!

Charles’ hopes of multi-faith coronation dashed by Church

13 April 2012

Prince Charles’ hopes of a multi-faith coronation suffered a blow when the Church of England asserted the historic importance of a solely Christian service when he becomes King. In a rebuke to the Prince’s hopes of inviting Muslims, Hindus and others to take an equal role in Westminster Abbey, the Church declared that Archbishop of Canterbury Dr Rowan Williams will design the coronation service.

The highly unusual statement was the Church’s first official pronouncement on how the coronation will be handled and it comes amid intensifying controversy over the role of non-Christian faiths and non-Anglican Christian denominations.

Charles has long made clear his yearning for a ceremony in which Muslim, Hindu, Jewish and Sikh beliefs take a place alongside the doctrines of the Church of England.

Dr Williams, however, has insisted that the Prince must restrain his interest in other faiths and stay within the ‘constitutional framework’ that makes him Supreme Governor of the Church of England.

The intervention from the Church made plain that Charles will be on his own if he tries to introduce other faiths into the religious coronation service at the Abbey.

The Church’s leading lay official, General Synod Secretary General William Fittall said yesterday: ‘The coronation service is conducted by the Archbishop of Canterbury, whose duty this has normally been since 1066.

“He, consequently, takes the lead in preparing the order of service for the approval of the sovereign.”

Mr Fittall, a former senior civil servant at the Home Office who has led the CofE bureaucracy for four years, delivered his statement in reply to a request from a Synod member to ‘clarify who decides the form of the next coronation service”.

The statement follows remarks by two leading Anglican prelates in the past few days on the importance of the Christian monarchy.

Earlier this week, Archbishop of York Dr John Sentamu told the Daily Mail that “the Church of England reminds the nation that in this country the Queen is Defender of the Faith, head of the Commonwealth and head of state.”

He said of the relationship between Church and monarch: “You change it at your peril”.

Dr Sentamu’s comments came in the wake of an interview given at the beginning of the month by Bishop of Rochester Dr Michael Nazir-Ali, who said that “the coronation service is singularly Christian in its form” and added that the Prince’s duty is to defend ‘the historic faith of our Church”.

Dr Sentamu, who is number two in the CofE hierarchy, and Dr Nazir-Ali are the two leading foreign-born bishops in the Church. It may not be coincidental that the Archbishop of York, from Uganda, and the Bishop of Rochester, from Pakistan, come from parts of the world where Christianity is under heavy pressure from Islam.

The official confirmation of Dr William’s lead role in the service yesterday added weight to the growing view that the Prince will be compelled to accept a traditional and solely Anglican coronation.

Other faiths will get a look in only at a subsequent and symbolically less important event to be arranged later.

An article in the Spectator magazine last month said Charles wants a second ceremony at Westminster Hall, inside the Palace of Westminster, which would admit Muslim, Hindu, Jewish and Sikh beliefs alongside those of non-Anglican Christians. This would be held at a later date.

The Prince, who will take the title Defender of the Faith when he becomes King, said 12 years ago that he wished to be seen rather as a Defender of Faith.

His push for a shift to a multi-faith monarchy alarmed many churchmen and politicians who saw it undermining both longstanding constitutional practice and the monarch’s position as Supreme Governor of the Church.

Charles is said to be determined to have a ‘focused and telecentric’ coronation that reflects a new era and a new kind of reign.

But Dr Williams delivered a warning against undermining the Christian monarchy when he went to Lambeth Palace nearly four years ago.

The Archbishop said early in 2003: “I am glad the Prince of Wales takes faith communities as seriously as he does but the actual title, there is a historical, constitutional framework for it which you don’t just change by fiat.”

Constitutional historian Professor Anthony Glees welcomed the Church’s assertion of its role.

“I am pleased that the Church is drawing attention to the importance of Christianity in the coronation, which of course we all hope will be a long time coming,” he said.

“We should remember Winston Churchill’s “finest hour” speech in 1940, in which he said the Battle of Britain was about to begin and that on it depended “the survival of Christian civilisation”.

“The reminder that this is a Christian country will be welcomed by many who fought to preserve it and those who remember them. They will be glad that the Archbishop of Canterbury has taken the point.”

Some Christian groups remain unhappy that the Prince is thought to be considering a multi-faith event to follow the coronation.

Colin Hart of the Christian Institute think tank said: “There are huge obstacles to a multi-faith coronation service and the constitution would unravel if Charles tried to do something different.

“But I find it bizarre that he intends to take a Christian coronation oath and then stage a second ceremony at which he will declare loyalty to other faiths. That appears to be breaking his oath.”

 

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Interesting; thanks.  If May 5 is The Day, nobody will be attending the first ceremony anyway.

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Here’s an idea.  We could pray they have a “Thief on the Cross moment”, and at the last minute (or so) leave their handlers dumbfounded and panic stricken.

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Can’t you just hear Screwtape hollering You fool, you let them slip away!

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I pray the whole world would receive Jesus as their King and we would just skip the tribulation.

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Sigh.  Then we can blame the Awe brothers for misleading us.  Click.  On to Pentecost or Feast of Trumpets.

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Very revealing and interesting report – great find Kolleen! And thank you Yohanan for your balanced and measured comments. I fully agree. We need to temper and test our expectations with the truth as we anticipate the moment we’re all waiting for. I think our departure date is wrapped in mystery like a Christmas present – to be opened and revealed at the right moment.

‘Tis all a matter of timing, methinks. I agree with many commentators that the book of Revelation is not necessarily a chronological account, but rather a series of visions – some of which overlap. The question is: where do we, the raptured saints, fit in?

In the particular vision when the seals are opened, the Apostle John is called up to heaven, the throne room, in Revelation 4. (The Lord Jesus’s last words in Rev 3 are: “To him that overcomes will I grant to sit with me in my throne…”). John describes what he sees and then – in the same vision – tells of the opening of the first seal and he is told to “Come and see” the white horse and its rider with the bow… followed by: “…and a crown was given unto him…”. Note the order and the tense: he actually watches the coronation happening from heaven.

The 24 elders are also present, because they have just sung their worship song (Rev 5) including the words: “…And has made us unto our God kings and priests…”. Some say the number 24 is not a literal number, but represents Israel (12 tribes) plus the saints (from the 12 apostles). Maybe. And we know we are already a royal priesthood from 1 Peter chapter 2 and other references.

These events all occur within the same vision.

The issue of the rider’s “bow” also intrigues me. The Greek word toxon, translated as “bow” is also used for a rainbow. It’s common knowledge that a rainbow was seen over Buckingham Palace and Windsor Castle when the Queen’s death was announced. Interestingly though, she allegedly died at Balmoral in Scotland and the rainbow was seen in London.

In the olden days before radio and telegrams, as the news was taken from town to town, a town crier would loudly proclaim in the streets: “The king is dead – long live the king!” It seems to me like that is the moment when the heir is acknowledged as the new monarch. That’s the moment the rainbow appeared over the English capital.

There is also a “bow” around Father God’s throne.

Random thoughts, ramblings and speculation.

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If we are watchful and look at ALL THE CLUES and not have our heads in the sand, we will know when the rapture is, even at the doors. 

 

Matthew 24:33

So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors. 

Luke 21:34-36

And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares.

For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth.

Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

 

I Thess 5:2-9

For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.

Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.

Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.

For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.

But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.

For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

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And yes, the rapture happens in I Thess before the AC is revealed in  2 Thess

The Rapture 

I Thess 4:16-17

For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

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Man of Sin is revealed … after the falling away

II Thess 2:3-

Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. 

And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

 

Revelation

The church in Sardis 

 I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.

Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy.

He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

 

The church of Philadelphia

I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name.

Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation (testing aka Tribulation) which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.

Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

 

 

the church of the Laodiceans

I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.

So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.

 

But they still get a chance … during the tribulation time … to become tribulation saints ….

Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

 

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In this week’s Andy Woods update, Andy said to get your bags packed!  I was excited to hear that from him.

-Fair Use-

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The evidence for our soon departure is overwhelmingly compelling, but we are still to occupy. Keep a watchful and prayerful heart. It is exciting to see all the pieces of this glorious puzzle fitted together. Our Heavenly Father is so beyond our understanding in His creation, timing, and the fulfillment of all that he set forth.  Everyday seems like the “last day” I may do this or go here or see this person on earth ….

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They both seem humble and gentle.  I like them.

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Aaron sings for us an encouraging message … are you ready to fly?

 

– Fair Use –

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Bob Barber short  1 minute clip …. Got to be flying on out before this occurs …

– Fair Use –

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Coincidence is not a Kosher word.

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Vatican may release holy Jewish artifacts from its storage galleries:

A recent initiative may be bringing Rome and Jerusalem closer together as the Vatican has expressed interest to advance a project releasing artifacts from their archives and allowing them to be placed in a museum.

Investigative archaeologist Rabbi Harry Moskoff has been searching for the Ark of the Covenant for decades and though he has yet to discover the holiest Temple artifact, he was recently contacted by the Vatican. In a stunning example of religious largesse, Vatican officials have expressed a willingness to reveal artifacts from the Holy Land that have been in their possession for hundreds of years. To facilitate this, Moskoff established the Vatican Museum Exchange Program.

“A high profile lawyer, who happened to be religious, was researching a case at the National Library of France,” Moskoff related. “He came across a document recording gifts that were given to Pope Innocent III by Baldwin I, the Emperor of the Latin Empire of Constantinople in the year 1204.”

The document listed the gifts which were, in fact, artifacts taken from the Holy Land.

“The lawyer contacted me on behalf of the Jerusalem Center for Public Affairs because he knew that I am an investigative archaeologist,” Moskoff told Israel365 News. “He told me that the Vatican may be interested in sharing with the public Byzantine era artifacts from Israel from the 11th, 12th, and even 13th centuries. This includes ancient makhta (incense shovels) and khatzotzroth (silver trumpets), as well as other smaller Jewish cultic items that were used for sacrificial rites.”

The first step will be to video the artifacts. Hopefully, the artifacts will be moved to the Vatican Museum where the public can see them.”

[Note: they aren’t planning on sending them to Israel, just letting people see them at the Vatican.]

https://www.israel365news.com/370513/vatican-may-release-holy-jewish-artifacts-from-its-archives/

 

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Amir Tsarfati:

As much as you love your country, your people, your heritage, your traditions, your music, your food, and so on, it’s time for believers to pull out their heavenly passports! This is not our home! This world is our mission field as ambassadors. Our diplomatic mission here on earth will soon be completed and we will be summoned to attend an important event at our real home while this world down below will go through the worst time since it was created!

https://t.me/s/beholdisraelchannel

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Well, to add to all this…

Dan can elaborate if he chooses, but just to say, these past three weeks he has experienced the most intense, consuming, and difficult time of witnessing to anyone ever…

And that lady just tonight, confessed that she Believes!!!

Welcome sister, and thank You Lord for Your mighty hand at work!

 

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 With God, nothing is impossible. 🙌  Never give up praying for the lost … even if it means praying that another believer comes in contact with that person to talk to them.  I betcha this dear lady had some loved one or friend praying for her soul in the past.

Thank you, Dan, for your faithfulness in witnessing!

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I wish we could have gotten just a glimpse into this rejoicing over her salvation.

I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance. Luke 15:7

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5 minute encouraging clip about the Eagle

 

– Fair Use –

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Geri – he is always a pleasure and an encouragement to listen to — praying for May — possibly this first half as the stars and the signs in the heavens speak the glory of our King….

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Is anybody feeling more spiritual attacks?

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Happy for you Geri. I hope that lady lives close enough to you so you can get together if you want to.

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Geri, you have a gift at witnessing and speaking with ease with strangers; it’s really a blessing to hear about!

The Lord is moving upon His people, and the lost!

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Got a message on the Google home page: “It’s World Password Day” (May 4)

My immediate response: Yes, and tomorrow is World Passover Day… and we have the password for that

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I feel really detached from this world, nothing here excites me anymore. My only excitement is looking for the rapture.

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Sometimes I feel very bold and adventurous when I think of my wonderful future and then I feel  trepidation of what is coming to this world and I almost tremble. I am so ready tho and nothing has a hold on me and neither am I holding on to anything. My only hope is my Blessed Hope! Come Lord Jesus!

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I still worry about judgment verses but oh well.  I’ll just be one of those ashamed folks.  It’s a good thing we don’t have to invite Him in when He comes; I can’t possibly get this house clean by then.

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The Judgment Seat of Christ

Scripture gives us a reason not to judge one another: “For we will all stand before God’s judgment seat. . . . So then, each of us will give an account of himself to God” (Romans 14:10b–12, ESV). None of us are qualified to be the Judge. Only the Lord Jesus is qualified, and all judgment has been entrusted to Him (John 5:22). We will all stand some day before the judgment seat of Christ.

The judgment seat of Christ involves a time in the future when believers will give an account of themselves to Christ. This is the plain teaching of Scripture: “We must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each of us may receive what is due us for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad” (2 Corinthians 5:10). The warning is to Christians, not unbelievers. As Jesus taught in His parable, the king is going to return, at which time he will require an account from his servants (Luke 19:11–26).

The judgment seat of Christ is different from the Great White Throne Judgment. That will be the final judgment of the wicked prior to their being cast into the lake of fire (Revelation 20:11–15). Appearing before the Great White Throne will be unbelievers. Believers will appear before the judgment seat of Christ.

The judgment seat of Christ does not determine our salvation; that matter was settled by Christ’s sacrifice on our behalf (1 John 2:2) and our faith in Him (John 3:16). All our sins are forgiven, and there is “no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus” (Romans 8:1). Jesus said, “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life” (John 5:24, emphasis added).

So, believers are secure in Christ, but they still must appear before the judgment seat of Christ. It will be a time of examination and a time of reward. Jesus will inspect our works. What did we do with the resources God gave us? How faithful were we? Were we yielded to the Spirit, seeking to honor Christ and further His work in the world? If so, we will have reward (see Matthew 10:41–42). Did we neglect our opportunities to serve the Lord? If so, we will suffer loss of reward. Paul likens our Christian service to erecting a building:

Each one should build with care. For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ. If anyone builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, their work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each person’s work. If what has been built survives, the builder will receive a reward. If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss but yet will be saved—even though only as one escaping through the flames (1 Corinthians 3:10b–15).

Note, in the above passage, that our works subsequent to Christ’s salvation are of two different types—good and bad. The “fire” of God’s scrutiny will reveal the quality of our works. As Arthur Pink points out, “‘Gold, silver, precious stones’ are of intrinsic value, whereas ‘wood, hay, stubble’ are a natural growth” (The Redeemer’s Return, ch. 8, pt. 5). Rewards are distributed to those whose works withstand the test. Those whose works have a natural source will “suffer loss.” Their works will be burned up, but they themselves “will be saved.” The judgment seat of Christ, then, does not confer or rescind salvation.

The judgment seat of Christ is also not a time to punish sin. Jesus took our punishment once and for all. The judgment seat of Christ is a time when we will be called on to report, to render an accounting of what we did for Jesus. It will be a serious and necessary time of reckoning, but, as God’s redeemed, we will never be condemned with the wicked. As one theologian put it, “It cannot be too strongly emphasized that the judgment is unrelated to the problem of sin, that it is more for the bestowing of rewards than the rejection of failure” (Chafer, L. S., Systematic Theology, Vol. IV: Ecclesiology-Eschatology, Dallas Seminary Press, 1948, p. 406).

In the Greek, a single word is used for “judgment seat” in Romans 14:10 and 2 Corinthians 5:10—the word is bema. A bema was a raised platform on which judges sat to view athletic games. Their job was to make sure contestants followed the rules and to present awards to the victors (see 1 Corinthians 9:24–27). The bema was never a place to reprimand the athletes or to punish them in any way. It was a place of testing and reward. In the same way, the bema of Christ will not be a place of condemnation or censure.

Got Questions

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The Tribulation

The Tribulation is a future time period when the Lord will accomplish at least two aspects of His plan: 1) He will complete His discipline of the nation Israel (Daniel 9:24), and 2) He will judge the unbelieving, godless inhabitants of the earth (Revelation 6 – 18). The length of the Tribulation is seven years. This is determined by an understanding of the seventy weeks of Daniel (Daniel 9:24-27; also see the article on the Tribulation). The Great Tribulation is the last half of the Tribulation period, three and one-half years in length. It is distinguished from the Tribulation period because the Beast, or Antichrist, will be revealed, and the wrath of God will greatly intensify during this time. Thus, it is important at this point to emphasize that the Tribulation and the Great Tribulation are not synonymous terms. Within eschatology (the study of future things), the Tribulation refers to the full seven-year period while the “Great Tribulation” refers to the second half of the Tribulation.

It is Christ Himself who used the phrase “Great Tribulation” with reference to the last half of the Tribulation. In Matthew 24:21, Jesus says, “For then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever shall.” In this verse Jesus is referring to the event of Matthew 24:15, which describes the revealing of the abomination of desolation, the man also known as the Antichrist. Also, Jesus in Matthew 24:29-30 states, “Immediately after the tribulation of those days . . . the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory.” In this passage, Jesus defines the Great Tribulation (v.21) as beginning with the revealing of the abomination of desolation (v.15) and ending with Christ’s second coming (v.30).

Considering the information Christ gave us in Matthew 24:15-30, it is easy to conclude that the beginning of the Great Tribulation has much to do with the abomination of desolation, an action of the Antichrist. In Daniel 9:26-27, we find that this man will make a “covenant” (a peace pact) with the world for seven years (one “week”; again, see the article on the Tribulation). Halfway through the seven-year period—”in the middle of the week”—we are told this man will break the covenant he made, stopping sacrifice and grain offering, which specifically refers to his actions in the rebuilt temple of the future. Revelation 13:1-10 gives even more detail concerning the Beast’s actions, and just as important, it also verifies the length of time he will be in power. Revelation 13:5 says he will be in power for 42 months, which is three and one-half years, the length of the Great Tribulation.

Revelation offers us the most information about the Great Tribulation. From Revelation 13 when the Beast is revealed until Christ returns in Revelation 19, we are given a picture of God’s wrath on the earth because of unbelief and rebellion (Revelation 16-18). It is also a picture of how God disciplines and at the same time protects His people Israel (Revelation 14:1-5) until He keeps His promise to Israel by establishing an earthly kingdom (Revelation 20:4-6).

Got Questions

 

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Reminder … Aaron @ GodAMinute is on high alert today, May 5th – Tuesday, May 9th 

 

And we have this brewing … Saudi might join the Abrahamic Accords as early as … this weekend.   Will they then say Peace and Safety?

 

 

– Fair Use –

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It’s tomorrow (Saturday) already in Jerusalem.

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