April 2, 2021 at 10:09 am #71975churchgalParticipant
April 2, 2021 at 10:30 am #71976Heather RParticipant
My take on these verses:
Luke 10:17 And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through thy name. 18 And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven. 19 Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you.
Jesus beheld Satan fall like lightning the first few days after the whole of creation was declared good. Satan probably hasn’t had access to the third heaven since the flaming sword was put there to keep the way of the tree of life. In Luke, Jesus was referencing His position within the Godhead, and specifically as the one who was there at the beginning of creation. It was His own voice that spoke creation into existence. Therefore, He has dominion over all of said creation, including the angel that fell that is responsible for deceiving the whole world. Thus, positionally in Christ the Creator who is supreme over all of creation, we have vocal power (an attribute of the indwelling Spirit) over that aspect of His creation, too.
I think I saw on the RITAN FB page a conversation about Satan having access to the third heaven still to appear before God and accuse the brethren. He does not. His access was removed at the same time Adam and Eve’s would have been. He doesn’t have to be in the third heaven to be “before God” accusing the brethren day and night. Technically speaking, that would mean he never leaves the physical presence of God if he is accusing the brethren before God day and night. Rather, Hebrews 4:13 explains that.
Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do.
In Job, Satan appeared before God at appointed times to answer to what he had been doing. That doesn’t mean Satan appeared before God in heavenly Zion. This is the reference to the mount of the congregation in the sides of the north. Joel 3 regards the “northern army”, as does Jeremiah 4. As does Ezekiel 38-39 with the reference to the “north parts”. The reference there is supernatural armies re: principalities, powers, rulers of the darkness, and spiritual wickedness in high places. All of that flows from the princes that have dominion of the earth currently and how God will ultimately declare possession of the whole earth and set Jesus at the top of the nations. The “north” refers to the mount that is set against Zion. The mount of congregation in the sides of the north is not Zion. Satan and his fallen angels do not appear before God in the heavenly throne room. That privilege was revoked long ago.
Deuteronomy 32:8 When the Most High divided to the nations their inheritance, when he separated the sons of Adam, he set the bounds of the people according to the number of the children of Israel. 9 For the Lord’s portion is his people; Jacob is the lot of his inheritance.
Those nations are ruled from the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north.
Psalm 82:1 God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods.
Isaiah 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! 13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
April 2, 2021 at 11:56 am #71982Geri9Participant
I’m sorry but you can’t just ignore these passages … the conversations happened between satan and/or the demons in the throne room of God showing they still have access to the 3rd heaven … its not their permanent home but they can still noisy around and volunteer to be a lying spirit to the unsaved and/or be the accuser of the brethren day and night.
Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them.
And the Lord said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the Lord, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.
And the Lord said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?
Then Satan answered the Lord, and said, Doth Job fear God for nought?
Hast not thou made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath on every side? thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land.
But put forth thine hand now, and touch all that he hath, and he will curse thee to thy face.
And the Lord said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the Lord.
Ahab rejected God’s counsel and refused to hear Truth given by God’s prophets so God asked for volunteers to “entice Ahab into attacking Ramoth Gilead and going to his death”. Who volunteers to do the lying? (A fallen angel/demon) said he will be that lying spirit and God gave that spirit permission to proceed – this all occurred in the Throne Room of the Lord.
I Kings 22:19 – 23
And he said, Hear thou therefore the word of the Lord: I saw the Lord sitting on his throne, and all the host of heaven standing by him on his right hand and on his left.
And the Lord said, Who shall persuade Ahab, that he may go up and fall at Ramothgilead? And one said on this manner, and another said on that manner.
And there came forth a spirit, and stood before the Lord, and said, I will persuade him.
And the Lord said unto him, Wherewith? And he said, I will go forth, and I will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And he said, Thou shalt persuade him, and prevail also: go forth, and do so.
Now therefore, behold, the Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the Lord hath spoken evil concerning thee.
And history will repeat itself … just like what happened to Ahab … during the tribulation … the unsaved that reject the Truth … will believe thee lie from the Father of lies, Satan.
II Thessalonians 2: 8-12
And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
I consider this passage still future occurring at the mid point of the tribulation …
And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
April 2, 2021 at 4:13 pm #71994David W. RocheModerator
17 And the seventy turned back with joy, saying, `Sir, and the demons are being subjected to us in thy name;’
18 and he said to them, `I was beholding the Adversary, as lightning from the heaven having fallen;
Luke 10:17-18 Young’s Literal Translation
If it helps any in understanding, the response Jesus gives is, “I was watching,” indicating this was not referring to an ancient event, but what was taking place as the seventy were casing out demons.
April 2, 2021 at 5:25 pm #71997ArthurParticipant
I believe that the devil and his angels will be cast to the earth during the Tribulation. IMHO, it’ll be at the start of the Tribulation. In other words, when we go up, they show up.
I believe the devil is still accusing the brethren day and night but that will draw to a close very soon.
Of course, I could be wrong about the timing but whatever the case, we are safe and secure in Jesus, the Son of God. :)
April 2, 2021 at 5:29 pm #71998tenderreedParticipant
April 2, 2021 at 6:42 pm #71999churchgalParticipant
I had listened to the video by the guys over at unsealed in which they described the time of the trib in Revelation in terms of a chiasm sp? in which Revelation could be mirrored on other sides with chap 12 being the center by similar numbered events and that Satan being thrown from heaven is first….and that we the church are caught up to heaven before he can do us harm…..now I am certainly not dogmatic about this because I had just recently heard it proposed, but one thing that I have thought of is that, at our changing into glorified bodies we might and probably should be able to see the spiritual world including demons and Satan if there are near….and that while we are incorruptible we could still be in some way vulnerable so the Lord immediately pulls us up to Him to protect us…. which of course we go up either way, which is a win win for us but I thought those stars, fragments or whatever they were looked interesting in their descent….almost as if they had been “thrown”..
It was amazing to watch whatever it was…but it did make me think of that
April 2, 2021 at 8:11 pm #72006KolleenWStoneModerator
Question: “Does Satan still have access to Heaven? Why does God allow Satan to enter Heaven, as recorded in the Bible?”
Answer: Satan was originally one of God’s holy angels, but he rebelled against God and was cast out of heaven (Luke 10:18). That was only the first stage of his judgment. Satan’s kingdom was vanquished at the cross (John 12:31–32). Later, he will be bound in the abyss for one thousand years (Revelation 20:1–3) and then will be cast into the lake of fire for eternity (Revelation 20:10).
Until his final judgment, Satan is “the prince of this world” (John 14:30), but it seems that he still has restricted access to the heavenly realms. In Job 1:6, Satan stands in the presence of God. There is a similar situation in 2 Chronicles 18:18–21 involving a “lying spirit.”
Since God is holy and absolutely without sin (Isaiah 6:3), and since He will not even look on evil (Habakkuk 1:13), how can Satan be in heaven? The answer involves God’s sovereign restraint of sin. In Job 1, Satan stood before God to give an account of himself. God initiated the meeting, led the proceedings, and remained in absolute control (verse 7). The result was that Satan’s power was limited (verse 12) and God was glorified.
Here are some other facts to note: 1) Satan does not have open access to God’s presence. He is summoned by God. 2) The visits are temporary. His time before God’s throne is limited. 3) In no way is the purity of heaven tainted by the brief, God-ordained presence of a sinful being, “quarantined,” as it were, by God’s regulatory power. And, 4) Satan’s access is only granted prior to the final judgment. After the judgment, God creates a new heaven and new earth (Revelation 21:1), wipes away all tears from our eyes (verse 4), reveals the New Jerusalem (verse 10), and promises the complete absence of sin (verse 27).
When we say, “God cannot allow sin into heaven,” we simply mean that God cannot allow human beings who are still in their sin to live in His presence. But it is possible for God to command a sinful being to stand (temporarily) in His presence in order to commission him (Isaiah 6), to exact an account from him (Job 1-2), or to judge him (Revelation 20:11–15) without compromising His holiness.
God’s holiness will eventually consume all sin. Until that day, His holiness regulates sin, and that means that Satan, on certain occasions, is briefly summoned before his Creator to give an account of his actions.
April 2, 2021 at 8:22 pm #72007KolleenWStoneModerator
Astronomers said the streaking light came from the Falcon 9 rocket, launched by SpaceX on March 4, reentering Earth’s atmosphere.
April 3, 2021 at 8:06 pm #72034Boulder95Participant
April 3, 2021 at 9:21 pm #72035Heather RParticipant
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