The Restrainer – A Who Or A What?

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    • #70445
      Loz
      Participant

      The Restrainer – A Who Or A What?

      Heather R

      Streamed live 58 minutes ago

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hcYUBnLnJjI

      “Fair Use For Education and Discussion Purposes”

      Loz :]

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    • #70473
      Blue
      Participant

      So, Heather thinks the restrainer is the Mosaic law which the AC will confirm the covenant with Israel at the beginning of the tribulation, and thinks the covenant with many is not the peace treaty. I have heard others say this, so it is an area Christians aren’t agreeing on. So did anyone watch the video I posted about the current peace treaties being made that said the peace treaties include agreement to the Noahide laws?  Couldn’t it all be the same covenant with peace and the law tied into one deal?

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    • #70474
      Blue
      Participant

      Here is the one that mentions Noahide law:

      https://iconnectfx.com/view/b8999112-976a-eb11-9979-00505682f257

      Fair Use

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    • #70475
      Arthur
      Participant

      The Mosiac law certainly is a restrainer, in certain capacities. It is referred to as a schoolmaster in Galatians.

      Galatians 3:22-26

      King James Version

      22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

      23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.

      24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

      25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

      26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

      I will watch the video later and see what her arguments are for this. My initial reaction is to reject it but I think it is worthwhile to think outside the box. We sometimes hold onto assumptions that are incorrect.

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    • #70476
      Loz
      Participant

      Heather has added a summary to her video description:

      I totally forgot to even mention “apostasia”. Sister verse to II Thessalonians 2:3’s “the falling away” is Acts 21:21​’s forsaking Moses. It means forsaking the law; the same context as I mentioned in this video.

      The falling away = cessation of sacrifices and offerings per Daniel 9:27​b
      The revelation of the man of sin = overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate per Daniel 9:27​b

      Those are the two things which must happen before Jesus returns per Daniel 9:27​c.

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    • #70487
      Loz
      Participant

      2 Thessalonians 2:3
      King James Version

      3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

       

      Acts 21:21
      King James Version

      21 And they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children, neither to walk after the customs.

       

      Daniel 9:27
      King James Version

      27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

       

      “Fair Use For Education and Discussion Purposes”

      Loz :]

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    • #70491
      tenderreed
      Participant

      Indeed knowledge and understanding will increase!  Also giving way to exotic interpretations!

      That said, though many things may add to the Holy Spirit’s work.  He has long been identified as the restrainer!

      TR

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    • #70493
      Yohanan
      Moderator

      I agree with TR. I’ve always heard/read of the Restrainer being the Holy Spirit.

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    • #70495
      JesusGirl
      Participant

      I think the Lord would not use Old Testament stuff, especially the Law, which relates to the Jews only at this moment, and not to the Church. The Church is mostly Gentile in nature, based on the Cross of Jesus, and has really no anchor for prophecy as far as Moses in the New Testament! The Restrainer is the Holy Spirit ! Thomas Ice has a great assessment on this subject! I am also not a believer that the Rapture has to happen on a Feast Day, which are also relating to the Law! Just like before, no Holy Spirit present any more …… Come quickly Lord Jesus ✨✨✨⚡️⚡️⚡️💥💥💥

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    • #70508
      Blue
      Participant

      I think she makes some good arguments. I have heard the “falling away” taught as the rapture, and as falling away from faith in Christ. My question about Daniel 9:27 has always been about the first part, who are the many?  Is it the AC making a covenant as a leader in Israel with the rest of the nations?  Or is it the AC making a covenant with Israel? It is looking to me like the Abraham Accords will be made greater and include more nations which will all agree to the Noahide laws and peace with Israel while Israel also gets their temple and resumes Mosaic law.

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    • #70513
      Loz
      Participant

      The Restrainer – A Who Or A What? Part Two (Apostasia)

      Heather R

      Streamed live 75 minutes ago

      “Fair Use For Education and Discussion Purposes”

      Loz :]

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    • #70514
      Loz
      Participant

      2 Thessalonians 2:3
      King James Version

      3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

      The son of perdition does not get revealed until the abomination of desolation declaring himself God, prior to that Israel is happy in having a temple and being able to correctly follow Mosaic Law thinking the AC is the Messiah.

      I agree with Heather, she explains it very well using scripture. If anyone has not watched/listened to it, I would encourage you to do so to see where she is coming from. :)

       

       

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    • #70519
      JesusGirl
      Participant

      So what does this all mean in the light of the imminent Rapture ?

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      • #70530
        Loz
        Participant

        Nothing has changed, we will still be Raptured, Caught Up, Harpazoed. :flyup:

        God has appointed the Rapture to take place at His pleasure, just like the Tribulation, Second Coming, etc, etc.

        :yes:

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    • #70521
      Blue
      Participant

      Heather thinks we have a few more years left, so we need to keep on studying. She is just educating us. I saw in the comments of the first video above that she thinks the rapture is in the 2023-2025 window. I haven’t kept up with all of her work, but I think in her study of the Jubilees she came up with the time.  She thinks the temple is built in a Jubilee year.  I hope she is wrong on the year!

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      • #70523
        churchgal
        Participant

        Im thinking that first of all, the dominos are ready to fall. The WEF or the globalists are not prepared to wait another couple of years and that would put us outside of the fig tree generation and I believe Jesus used His words intentionally so that the season would be well known- Im all in for 2021, here’s to hoping for a sooner than latter Rapture!

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    • #70524
      Blue
      Participant

      I looked at the comments again.  She thinks the measuring of the temple and first day of the tribulation are on Nisan 10 in 2023-2025 window.  Not saying when the rapture is, just we will be gone by then.

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    • #70525
      Blue
      Participant

      Anyone want to look up when Nisan 10 is this year on all the various calendars?

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      • #70527
        Todd Tomlinson
        Participant

        Interesting – March 23rd, 2021 is Nisan 10 this year.    Which seems to coincide with that 3rd week of March date that keeps floating around out there.

         

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        • #70536
          churchgal
          Participant

          I believe March 23rd is the date of the Israel elections for prime minister again….very interesting…. :popcorn :flyup: :flyup:

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    • #70531
      Loz
      Participant

      2 Thessalonians 2:3
      International Standard Version

      3 Do not let anyone deceive you in any way, for it will not come unless the rebellion[a] takes place first and the man of sin,[b] who is destined for destruction,[c] is revealed.

       

       

      Kehillah in Thessalonika II 2:3
      Orthodox Jewish Bible

      3 Let no one in any way lead you astray, because, unless the Merid (Rebellion, Revolt, the [Anti-Moshiach] Shmad Betrayal Defection of Apostasy, the Azivah Abandonment) Desertion comes rishonah (first), and the Apocalypse of the Ish HaMufkarut (Man of Lawlessness), the Ish HaChatta’ah Ben HaAvaddon (Man of Sin, Son of Destruction Anti-Moshiach) is unveiled.

       

       

      2 Thessalonians 2:3
      English Standard Version

      3 Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness[a] is revealed, the son of destruction,[b]

       

       

      2 Thessalonians 2:3
      Darby Translation

      3 Let not any one deceive you in any manner, because [it will not be] unless the apostasy have first come, and the man of sin have been revealed, the son of perdition;

       

       

      2 Thessalonians 2:3
      Complete Jewish Bible

      3 Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way.

      For the Day will not come until after the Apostasy has come and the man who separates himself from Torah has been revealed, the one destined for doom.

       

       

      2 Thessalonians 2:3
      American Standard Version

      3 let no man beguile you in any wise: for it will not be, except the falling away come first, and the man of [a]sin be revealed, the son of perdition,

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    • #70535
      JesusGirl
      Participant

      I am seriously pondering all of this 🤔 The anti Christ will come on the scene after the Rapture….right!? Dr. Andy Wood taught that Israel will be able to sacrifice and do all things Law with the approval of the anti christ! While the 7 seals tormenting the earth, the Jews have their temple and are hanging with their messiah…the church has to be removed for all this! The way this teaching about all of this sounds  is like the Body of Messiah Yeshua is still around….I don’t know….🤔 I am confused!!! How about all the other translations of the Restrainer, by Dr. Ice? Are they not valid anymore? The Rapture is the only hope for us and the whole world right now….

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    • #70538
      churchgal
      Participant

      Jesus Girl- in my humble opinion the restrainer is still felt to be by many the Holy Spirit which dwells in the believers of the church age. I think Heather is proposing ideas that it could be mosaic law however I don’t think it’s conclusive at this time. The restrainer, He is capitalized and would indicate part of the trinity.

      For so many reasons we all still believe that the Rapture must precede the trib, the Jews and many in the world will not recognize the AC for who he really is and it may even be difficult at first to be determined because he is someone not very important and quickly rises to overcome others, so he would support their worship and sacrifices in the temple but as he is serving the enemy he wouldn’t mind them continuing the sacrifice as it is likely offensive to God at this point since Jesus paid the price.

      Be encouraged, we see the day approaching and the Spirit speaks truth to us and we know that it is soon!

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    • #70540
      Blue
      Participant

      I have only watched the first video. Heather is just saying that the verses are talking about the second coming and not the rapture.  The revealing of the AC is at the midpoint of the tribulation.  He will come on the scene at the beginning (after the rapture), but they will figure out that he isn’t who they think he is (be revealed) at the midpoint….after he puts a stop to the sacrifices-law (this is the apostacy-falling away from the law) and desecrates the temple.

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      • #70549
        JesusGirl
        Participant

        Thank you ❤️Yes, I think in the same way….I am seriously pondering this and what it could mean…..

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    • #70541
      Blue
      Participant

      apostasy

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    • #70542
      tenderreed
      Participant

      Indeed I appreciate all those that dedicate themselves to deep study of the Word!

      That said, many believe and preach our redemption is near!  Some teach otherwise!  Again, we’ll find out soon enough!

      I’ll keep looking up daily!

      TR

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    • #70544
      Loz
      Participant

      Thessalonians 1:14 – 18 covers the Rapture, which as we all know is before Daniel’s 70th week.

       

      1 Thessalonians
      King James Version

      13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

      14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

      15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

      16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

      17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

      18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

       

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    • #70545
      regina
      Participant

      not meaning to shout with bold, I just don’t know how else to emphasize the absolute control, power of God over when the rapture happens and all the events leading up to the second coming of Jesus and establishment of His millennial rule over all the earth. people can choose to change their mind about placing faith in Jesus, some will not ever repent, but the timing boundaries of the 70th week is totally in the control of God.

      About the power to restrain, remember that God is who says the covenant Israel makes with death will not stand.

      It is God who has set boundaries for the timing of the rapture, when Jesus opens the seals, when  the witnesses appear, when the 144000 are chosen, when the abomination happens midtrib (mid trib can only be because God has set a beginning and ending time). Heather is talking about what is going to take place before the second coming of Jesus, not the rapture.

      Holy Spirit doesn’t leave the planet, but allows some things to take place and disallows other things to take place. Holy Spirit of God is still restraining even when the two witnesses are present, because of the power that God gives them to overcome until their testimony is finished- Rev 11:3-12. the two witnesses do not come to Israel because of Israel following the law, but because God sends them to testify to Israel about Jesus for a time that God planned. Israel is not even following the law completely at that time because they are making lies their refuge – the governing authority over them thinks that if they deceive well enough or go along with what is against God, that they will be safe to follow God as they see fit and dwell in the land, not be trampled down as the scourge does to others. Dan 7:7-9, 19-27

      Isaiah 28:14 Therefore hear the word of the Lord, you scornful men,
      Who rule this people who are in Jerusalem,
      15 Because you have said, “We have made a covenant with death,
      And with Sheol we are in agreement.
      When the overflowing scourge passes through,
      It will not come to us,
      For we have made lies our refuge,
      And under falsehood we have hidden ourselves.”

      16 Therefore thus says the Lord God: “Behold, I lay in Zion a stone for a foundation,
      A tried stone, a precious cornerstone, a sure foundation;
      Whoever believes will not act hastily.
      17 Also I will make justice the measuring line,
      And righteousness the plummet;
      The hail will sweep away the refuge of lies,
      And the waters will overflow the hiding place.
      18 Your covenant with death will be annulled,
      And your agreement with Sheol will not stand;
      When the overflowing scourge passes through,
      Then you will be trampled down by it.
      19 As often as it goes out it will take you;
      For morning by morning it will pass over,
      And by day and by night;
      It will be a terror just to understand the report.”

      It is God that restrains Satan. Wickedness is not stopped by laws we make, look at the world today, how many laws there are against evil but those who don’t care do evil anyhow. It is God in His timing that an angel is tasked with binding Satan and throwing him into the abyss where Satan is unable to get out for 1000 years. God sends the angel. God makes the chain available that the angel uses. God created the abyss. God has the power to restrain – Rev 20:1-3 

      the sacrifices will stop, and Israel will recognize that antiChrist isn’t their messiah then, in the timing of God. Since God has decreed that last 7 year space of time, events within that time have to happen in an order that God already has planned so that all is fulfilled within the 70 weeks that God decreed in Dan 9. the temple being rebuilt, return to sacrifices, ceasing sacrifice, the whole of what will happen can only take place within a space of time that God sets, not man, not legal decisions man makes, not at Satan’s discretion, it will only take place because of the plan and work of God. The two witnesses, the 144000, the seals, the trumpets, the bowls, it is all because of God’s plan of redemption to be fulfilled. The false prophet, antichrist, Satan, all grasp for power, destroy opponents, strike out, what ever they can do but submit to Jesus; yet for all they do, God’s plan unfolds ending in the salvation of as many Gentiles who repent, and a remnant of Israel being saved and calling on the Lord to save them. the 70 weeks ends with Jesus triumphant and ruling. a believing remnant of Israel survives because God does restrain evil. Matthew 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect’s sake those days shall be shortened.

      Zech 13:8-9

      unfortunately, this is what it will take for a remnant of Israel to say blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord. this is what it takes for Jesus to return to earth to rule.

      so yes, there will be both an abandoning of tolerating the Jewish law by antichrist, and the man of sin revealed before Jesus returns.

      yes, the restrainer is the Holy Spirit who is in the church now, who has kept both the church and Israel from being wiped out by Satan, which Satan would love to do. God restains Satan from destroying the church and Israel completely. God will call the church up in the rapture, and the Word of God will take the scroll from His Father’s hand and open the seals when it is God’s timing.

      take heart church, Almighty God is in control of timing. what ever you see around us now, we are not going to heaven sooner or later than God’s plan that is in place. if we die before the rapture, our days are in God’s hands. if we are the ones who get to come to heaven without going through death, this too is because of God’s choice, His control, His time.

      1Thes 4:13-18, 1Cor 15:50-58, 1 John 3:1-3

      https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1Thes+4%3A13-18%2C+1Cor+15%3A50-58%2C+1+John+3%3A1-3&version=KJV

      All because of God,

      Daniel 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

      2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

      3 And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.

      4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

      5 Then I Daniel looked, and, behold, there stood other two, the one on this side of the bank of the river, and the other on that side of the bank of the river.

      6 And one said to the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, How long shall it be to the end of these wonders?

      7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.

      Dan 12:10 Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.

      11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

      12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.

      13 But go thou thy way till the end be: for thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot at the end of the days.

      :popcorn :flyup:  its coming, the rapture. on time.

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    • #70552
      JesusGirl
      Participant

      Thank you Regina ❤️Great assessment! I agree …..but still, the sign are in our face, and with the gender equality act passing the house vote yesterday, one can only put the hope ninths Rapture….not for my own sake, but for the sake of the children if this law is being passed in the last governmental vote! How long did the time of Noah Last! 1000 years? 1500? No sure, Ingried to research, but there are just so many opinions out there. The Rapture has to happen soon, with the vaccine and all the other stuff….

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      • #70560
        JesusGirl
        Participant

        Sorry, spellcheck got me! I type German too with my keyboard and it messed everything up! 🤪

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      • #70561
        regina
        Participant

        i think it will be soon too. its definitely before the first rider

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    • #70630
      Yohanan
      Moderator

      Hi regina,

      Bolding words for emphasis is totally fine. Even a well placed “all caps” is okay, its just when all caps is used beyond a strategically placed word or two that is becomes annoying. That’s when it seems like the person is yelling. What you posted is fine.

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