The switch?

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    • #11757
      BeckyE
      Participant

      While I can see all the events of today leading to the end I know is coming, how does “the switch” happen? How does it go from just a society that wants to be cashless so we put chips in our hands, a society that mandates vaccines and what goes into our bodies, a government that says we can’t meet as church because of public health risk… all that, to: choosing to worship something other than God.

      Non-believers don’t want the government monitoring them. Non-believers don’t want vaccines that haven’t been tested. How do you foresee the switch happening?

      I don’t think the mark of the beast is going to be “just” currency, or an ID like in the new US Drivers License. I don’t have any theories right now.

      what do you think? :unsure:

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    • #11759
      tenderreed
      Participant

      Indeed an international crisis real or imagined in which the nations will forego national identities and borders.  Once that is accomplished individual liberties will also go out the window.  But where we stand now is not enough.  Once accelerated it could happen quickly.  And the Rapture could be just that accelerant!

      TR

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    • #11760
      Geri7
      Blocked

      Most unsaved can’t comprehend eternal life, they have a spiritual blockage, until they have asked Jesus to be their personal Savior will they understand the things of God.  They are spiritually just dead men walking so to them life is here and now and that’s it.  Some do believe in the false reincarnation junk and coming back as something else to planet earth and others don’t believe in an afterlife and I think its mainly because so they can live by their rules and don’t have to answer to the One who created everything,  Jesus Christ.

      With that earthly mind set … most of the unsaved will willingly stand in line for the mark/chip/tattoo symbol whatever it is the AC requires.  It will probably be some type of barcode number like a social security number perhaps with the prefix of 666?  That way that unique number identifies them to make electronic purchases from their bank account.  It will also contain health/dental/drivers license.  I heard rumors the chip can also control someone’s mind … perhaps that person will no longer be able to think clearly to accept the Truth of the Gospel?  Or the other possibility is … perhaps some type of demon serum shot will be given called (The Fountain of Youth)  since everyone  wishes to look younger and to live longer.  However, once they take that shot their DNA will change and will no longer be fully man or redeemable with the shed blood of Christ since Jesus died for man not fallen angels.

      Jesus said “Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat”

      So I see the bulk of the people will eagerly take the mark with no resistance at all and the few that refuse the mark, will be mostly the tribulation saints because they will know better.

       

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    • #11763
      Arthur
      Participant

      IMHO,  the great deception will be “aliens” (really demons/fallen angels)  promoting panspermia.  Panspermia is the idea that aliens seeded life on earth and that God didn’t create life.
      <p style=”text-align: left;”>With all this supernatural activity going on,  nobody will be an atheist. Perhaps some of the aliens will look like Superheroes popularized in movies or anime characters?</p>
      Now,  imagine if these “aliens” said,  we have free energy,  500 years disease free,  everyone can look like a supermodel,  etc.  All you have to do is take this mark and blaspheme God.  Billions will sign up.

       

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    • #11766
      tenderreed
      Participant

      Indeed, so true.  Sadly, most everyone is into immediate rather than delayed gratification.  Far sighted thinking just doesn’t seem to be as popular as it once was.

      Given the track record both and good and bad the Church has had, the religion that has dominated so many church’s for so long a time has watered down it’s message.

      Again, like someone else so aptly pointed out, the Rapture will occur on a day like any other.  And what was normal 40 yrs ago is not today’s normal!

      Speaking of the switch.  I think of the Rapture like a light switch.  Once turned on, it will be a light for us, albeit in another room in our Father’s house.  But the rest will remain in darkness!

      The only thing that we need to remember IMHO, is that fear is not from the Lord!  Happy trails!

      TR

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    • #11769
      Tammie
      Participant

      As to a “switch” – we have to remember that a great deception will occur and blindness of truth will fall on most. They will believe the lies pushed out, think of the lies and mistruths that have caused a panic in our society currently over a Flu that is not even as resilient as the regular flu, harms a smaller group in the population. Prime example going on now.
      Whether it’s via alien, desire to be super models or perfect health, or elites, it will go forward. Once they receive the mark (could be a chip, tattoo), personally believe it will be visible to designate allegiance. They can not go back, it will change them with their very soul, the things of God will no longer be a remote desire in their heart of hearts.
      :prayer-hands:

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    • #11778
      tenderreed
      Participant

      Again, receiving the mark is accompanied by worship of the Beast.  The two are mentioned as bringing eternal spiritual death.  Can one take the mark and not worship the Beast?!  Or is doing the one a foregone conclusion that the other will happen?

      Again, disasters of every ilk are exponentially on the rise, spiritual darkness continues to increase at an alarming rate.  End time prophecies are being fulfilled before our very eyes.  The worlds economy seems to be teetering on the edge in almost every nation where it is not artificially propped up.  Normal weather patterns are no longer normal, (We should shoot the groundhog by the way).

      Again a day like any other is where any day could qualify!

      TR

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    • #11791
      Arthur
      Participant

      John MacArthur,  the Calvinist,  says you can take the Mark of the Beast and then repent.  Beware of this false teaching.

       

      Taking The 666 Is ‘Forgivable’ – John MacArthur, Brannon Howse, Jimmy DeYoung, Phil Johnson

      The backdrop for this video [link] is this: It is an audio recording of an interview by ‘Worldview Weekend’s’ Brannon Howse of ‘preacher’ Jimmy DeYoung. Apparently some time back ‘preacher’ Jimmy DeYoung came out with the stated position that a person could in fact take the “mark of the beast” and still be ‘saved’ if they were to later repent. This audio recording is Christendom personality Brannon Howse informing said Jimmy DeYoung of some good news – at which the two become somewhat giddy – turns out that widely known and generally widely respected bible teacher John MacArthur (this will be no surprise for many as MacArthur’s globalist connections are known and documented – research will bear this out) took the exact same position a few years back – and has never retracted it:

      [:57] Audience questioner: “Once a person takes the mark…is there any possibility of him coming to Christ?”

      [1:02] MacArthur: “Yes…

      [1:33] …in order to function in the economy of the Antichrist you have to take the mark of the beast

      [2:12] …now the question is if you are living in the tribulation period and you take this mark…in other words you identify with the beast’s empire…will you still be able to be redeemed? and I think the answer to that is yes…yes…”

      https://anothervoicerev184.blogspot.com/2013/11/apostasy-alert-john-macarthur-and.html?m=1

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      • #11815
        Geri7
        Blocked

        I’m not a fan of John McArthur teaching.  He discouraged people to pray if you or your loved one is sick … claiming its God’s will so just accept it.  My sister brought over a pamphlet of his “teachings” and I shredded it since my mom had cancer at that time and I wanted her healed and well again.  What about the verses “pray without ceasing”?  “You have not because you ask not?”  I saw tons of miracles answered when praying for her healing and she was improving – between the prayer and putting her on an alkaline diet.  Her last blood test readings showed everything was within range, she looked great/felt great … the colon cancer was gone, the pancreatic cancer was gone …she just had cancer in the liver region and I felt she would be healed from that as well.  Meanwhile the evil chemo doctor demanded to know what I was doing.  I just replied we are praying to Jesus for healing.  He was sooo mad and gave me a killer look.  Then before we left his office, my mom asked him what foods should she eat?  He replied, “candy, cookies and soda.”  Hmmm.   My mom tripped and fell down and hurt her leg and was placed in a rehab center for 6 weeks.  During that time span the evil chemo doctor gave orders to only feed her with acid junk food.  My hands were tied because I worked and couldn’t be there to cook and feed her the right alkaline foods.  I kept bringing over food, ensure drinks and bottled water.  The workers got upset and said she needs a doctors prescription for water!   Yet it was ok  they kept giving her sugary soda and fruit juices. Hmmm.   Then they started to removed all foods and liquids from her and gave her morphine to make her sleepy.  I had no idea this was happening … I innocently thought she was sleeping and just missing the meals.  She would call me late at night and say “she is starving and thirsty”.  I urged her to ask the worker for some soup, etc.  She never did come home … instead she went to her heavenly home.  She had the best health insurance – pretty much EVERYTHING was paid for … except seeing the last bill AFTER my brother had her cremated.  This was against her wishes since she had money put aside for a proper burial.  Same with my dad … he was cremated against his wishes as well.  Anyway, received a bill with  a bunch of codes so I called up the insurance company to asked why this wasn’t covered and what the codes meant.  The doctor gave orders to remove body parts without our permission!  Its a miracle she was still “alive” 2 days before dying and the night before she died I got word to come to visit her because this is it.  Even in the state of being totally drugged up with morphine … the Lord opened her eyes and ears to hear me … she kept squeezing my hands when I asked her if she can hear me.  So I just started praying over her again for one last miracle for healing … I truly believed it could still happen.  I wasn’t giving up.  I also read passages of Scripture and tried to sing some songs to her.  She went to heaven the next morning.

        Not too long after her death … Jack Kelly wrote an article rebuking people for not praying hard enough for healing.  He irked many people and put blame on them for their loved ones not getting well.  He couldn’t put any guilt on me though because I had faith right up to the very end for my mom to be well.  Ironically right after Jack Kelly posted that controversial article … BAM he gets sick and dies.  Must have been embarrassing for his wife and family afterwards that his “teaching of not praying enough” didn’t work for him.  ((Crickets))   I’m also not a fan of Jack Kelly’s “easy believism” … he’s got a few of his fans believing head knowledge (Jesus’ death, burial and resurrection) is enough for salvation without asking Jesus to be their personal Lord and Savior.  This is why they struggle with the OSAS because they genuinely are still not saved with only a head knowledge belief.  Hey, the devil and demons also believe Jesus is God in the flesh, but are not saved.

        Surprised about Jimmy DeYoung.  He always seemed sound when he appeared on the John Ankerberg show.  Thanks for the heads up.

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        • #11872
          Arthur
          Participant

          It was shocking to me, as well.

          Used to be a big John MacArthur fan. I’ve read a number of his books and although I knew he was Calvinist, he was pre-trib and his eschatology seemed on point.

          However, after learning of his Masonic connections and some of his other teachings, I’ve dropped him like a hot potato. That and re-examined the teachings of Calvinism, in general.

          Really concerned that some Calvinists that are not saved (there are unsaved people in every church, of course) and will enter the Tribulation and take the Mark of the Beast on the advice of John MacArthur to their eternal damnation. :(

           

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    • #11796
      Tammie
      Participant

      Arthur, brother I will stand to disagree with this, My rationale is due to those who receive the mark during the tribulation will do so as Adam did, with eyes fully open to the sin of turning away in disobedience to God to serve the beast. Maybe I’m wrong, that’s ok, thankfully, it’s not up to me, but the God of the universe. There will be those who are saved during the tribulation at the cost of their head (why do they lose their head, ever thought of that? – different discussion). Through time, satan has taken truth and twisted it so man will make it what man needs it to be to justify a personal belief system outside of the truth of the Gospel. My opinion, as limited as it is. :prayer-hands:

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      • #11857
        Arthur
        Participant

        I am a bear of small brain so I don’t quite understand your reply. :unsure:

        EDIT: I re-read your reply and see that you agree that the teaching is false. Sorry for the confusion. :wacko:

        John MacArthur said that you can take the Mark of the Beast and later repent of it and be saved.

        I totally disagree with this heretical teaching by John MacArthur.

        The Word of God strongly warns against taking the Mark of the Beast and the eternal consequences for doing so. There are no take backs.

         

        Receiving the mark of the beast has a very serious consequence.

        The most solemn, fiery threat in the Bible applies to anyone who receives the mark of the beast.

        “If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.” Revelation 14:9-11

        If you receive the mark of the beast you will receive the full wrath of God. His wrath will not have any mercy mixed in with it.

        Everyone who has the mark of the beast will receive seven terrible plagues. The 1st plague will be terrible, painful sores.

        “So the first went and poured out his bowl upon the earth, and a foul and loathsome sore came upon the men who had the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image.” Revelation 16:2

        Get the mark of the beast and die eternally
        Beyond receiving 7 plagues full of the wrath of God, the people who receive the mark of the beast will lose the opportunity to live forever. They will die eternally instead.

        http://www.markbeast.com/mark/get-mark-beast.htm

         

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        • #11862
          Geri7
          Blocked

          I agree taking the mark of the beast is VERY serious and no do overs once a person accepts it.

          Speaking of mark of the beast … I know we’ve been taught the mark is required at the mid trib point … but I’ve recently been reading a few watchers claiming they feel it will be administered at the beginning of the tribulation.  Could they actually be right or does it dogmatically have to occur mid point?

          I know the chapters in the book of Revelation do overlap.  For instance Rev. 4:1 the door is open …. this indicates the rapture event “… behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither …”

          then you have this verse in Rev. 22:12 “And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.”  This happens at the rapture event.

          We know the 2 witnesses appear on the scene at the beginning of the tribulation but they aren’t mentioned until chapter 11:3“And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.”

          So … can the mark actually be required earlier than mid point?

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    • #11800
      tenderreed
      Participant

      May we never be in the position to choose!  Indeed, did God really say?!

      We so like to parse the words of the Lord, don’t we.  But again knowing the Lord’s heart it is better to err on the side of caution.  Especially with regards to our eternal destination, or so it seems to me.

      I may not always be right, but loving the Lord never makes me wrong.

      TR

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    • #11812
      Donna
      Moderator

      yes,  one must worship the beast to take the mark . .  ~~ ~`   the deception of the worldlings is shaking this world,  ~~ God is overshaking satan’s madness  ~     ~~  Jesus said it would be this way ~~   ~ ~ having been shown the contrast of Light verses darkness these days our Lord’s patience is  Majestically amazing . .   ~~ Our God on His Throne is showing these days His great purpose His gift to us to live by faith, and so we cling to His promises ~ ~ ~  by the Word of  our KING ever Righteous Ruler, on the Throne,  we are so thankful our God is not intimated or surprised ever  ~~ ~our infinite God is the Glory of eternity, His eternal Refuge of Heaven truly I believe is ready and awaiting us . .  ,   ~   oh, how our souls and spirits loooooooooooooooong for our call HOME, it’s in our spiritual dna, yea, the Spirit of Jesus abiding Who gave all He could to save us, ~~~    fear is gone when we realize and remember the truth that absent from this body is to be in the PRESENCE of our LORD ~~   YES . . selah . .  . . Jesus will carry us truly in rapture ~ ~

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    • #11887
      David W. Roche
      Moderator

      [quote]So … can the mark actually be required earlier than mid point?[/quote]

      I’m inclined to think not.  Here’s why.  The Beast is spoken of as assuming full power at the mid-point.  The mark is a deliberate decision to give one’s allegiance to him and reject God.  There are a number of reasons why that situation does not emerge until Satan is cast down to the earth in Revelation 13:5-8.

      5 The beast was given a mouth to utter proud words and blasphemies and to exercise its authority for forty-two months. 6 It opened its mouth to blaspheme God, and to slander his name and his dwelling place and those who live in heaven. 7 It was given power to wage war against God’s holy people and to conquer them. And it was given authority over every tribe, people, language and nation. 8 All inhabitants of the earth will worship the beast—all whose names have not been written in the Lamb’s book of life, the Lamb who was slain from the creation of the world.

      Yes, the man is around before then, yet does not come into full global authority until the last 42 months.  I do recognize that some things are not strictly chronological in Revelation, with a lot of backfilling to complete the storyline.  It just seems more likely here that the mark is more than economics; it is the “final answer” to the question of whom will you serve, God or Satan.  I see that as withheld until the final 3 and 1/2 years.

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      • #11899
        Geri7
        Blocked

        Good point, David. :good:   I’m going to make a snap shot copy of what you wrote and keep on hand to refer back to … because every time I read some comment about “the mark of the beast is here yada yada yada” I will refer back to what you said to remind me … nope, it isn’t … not yet.

        Also we have this timeline after the 2 witnesses get martyred and I guess the 144,000 job duties are over-with?  Or do the 144,000 continue their ministry to the very end of the tribulation or only up to mid point? 

        We have this scene in Revelation 14:6 … the Lord assigns 4 angels to warn the inhabitants on the earth so they aren’t left in the dark:

        6And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,

        8 And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.

        9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,

        10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

         

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    • #11889
      tenderreed
      Participant

      Agreed!

      TR

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    • #11909
      tenderreed
      Participant

      Interesting point about the 144,000?!  But if they were to be killed or taken out I think it would have been mentioned.  For if God to give the immediate disposition of the two end prophets, I have to believe He would have also with them.  Their witness however will probably end at mid point.

      TR

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    • #12027
      tenderreed
      Participant

      The switch as you refer to it IMHO is simply watching God moving from one glory into another.  As He implements His determined plans, we can only stand in awe and wonder.

      TR

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    • #12029
      David W. Roche
      Moderator

      Geri, I really like the observation that angels are assigned to deliver the announcements to the world, which I think is a good indication that the ministry of humans is absent or greatly curtailed.  It’s just an assumption, however.

      It isn’t clear, at least to me, what becomes of the 144,000.  Chapter 14 of Revelation refers to them again and I take it these are the same ones mentioned in chapter 7.  We are told the Lamb is standing with them on Mount Zion, which is on earth, and a voice is heard coming “from heaven.”  The timing is difficult to pinpoint, as Revelation often backtracks to fill in the story.  What follows is a warning about not taking the mark, and a description of Armageddon.  Therefore, these images are compressed over quite some time, likely over 3 1/2 years.  I’m not absolutely sure about some aspects, I’ll admit.

       

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      • #12034
        Geri7
        Blocked

        Yeah I have a cyber friend who thinks the 144,000 ministry continues to the very end of the trib.

        I’m wondering now if perhaps the 144,000 flee to Petra with the other 1/3 obedient Jews?  Then they just clue them on what’s happening and teach them about Jesus so the 1/3 are ready for the 2nd Coming? :unsure:

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