The truth about the “departure”

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    • #11055

      One of my favorite Bible Scholars is Joel Joseph. His 510 released today and is pretty powerful with putting the pri tribulation view cemented. It brought a lot of comfort to me. I have read a lot lately about the 1000 of people coming to a saving knowledge of Christ and the churches that are turning against Israel. It didn’t make sense with what I have been taught for decades about a “falling away” must occur before the rapture can take place. With so many getting saved and all the pieces of prophecy for Israel falling into place, this study makes so much more logical sense. I know we are soon outta here, by the King’s cry of command. :prayer-hands:


    • #11067

      Falling away from truth and believing lies.  Falling away to reprobate minds.  Falling away after every wind of doctrine of men and demons.  Falling away from righteousness, morality and the law.   Falling away from what has been proven good and yet called evil.  Etc….

      Not that people still won’t turn to the Lord.  IMHO


      • #11075

        I agree the falling away are those who have itching ears and rather be entertained with fables and attending Laodicean churches.

        I do wonder after the rapture happens if any percentage in that group will wise up and finally get saved or will they all fall into this category of being deceived and lost forever because they will believe the lie?

        2 Thessalonians 2:10-12
        And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

        And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

        That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

    • #11080
      David W. Roche

      Thank you, Tammie.  The article states it very well and the root word does mean “departure.”  It can better be understood as a physical departure, in my view.

      I will admit to wanting to pull out my hair when someone defines “apostasia” by the modern cognate of “apostasy.”  I go bonkers over circular reasoning.  You don’t interpret a first century word by 21st century usage.  You have to go back to the original vocabulary and determine what it meant to those who spoke the language.

      The discussion has been raised in the forum before.  “Apostasia” literally means “departure,” though it can be either a physical or a figurative one.  It was used at times to signify “rebellion,” and the first extra-Biblical use of it as a physical departure in literature is found perhaps a century after Paul wrote.  (I’d have to look it up again.)

      That doesn’t really prove anything one way or the other, it has to be admitted.  Not every word used by Biblical writers would have necessarily been found in their letters.

      Apostasia was translated as “departure” up until about the time of the King James Bible.

      Good discussion here:

      In reading those comments, I found myself getting very frustrated again.  Someone stated they hadn’t bothered to read the article and its arguments; they just looked in a modern lexicon which borrowed the interpretation of “apostasia” as “apostasy” from contemporary usage.  That is very poor scholarship.  You don’t have to accept someone’s arguments, but please don’t rely on circular reasoning.


      “Before the King James Bible the word was rendered as ‘departure’.”

      “It says it means ‘falling away’ in Strong’s Concordance.”

      “Yes, but Strong’s is reflecting the usage of the King James Version.”

      “Well, the KJV is the Bible, so there you go!”

      (Throws up hands in frustration.)

    • #11084

      Catching away, snatched up, departure, spirited away, translated,  there are many interpretations that could be invoked.  In the end all saying the same thing.  Language aside, we’re outta here!



    • #11094


      I would agree with your frustrations. It’s like those who read Revelation or even much of scripture, and try to interpret it according to an American view, a modern view, or personal opinion.
      Don’t get me wrong, I’m very patriotic, but the scriptures where written predominantly by Jewish men, who would speak to what they new of the customs of the day.. Jay McCarl always says, “What did they think…”. This is so true with looking at the text. Joel typically builds a great case and does not hold any punches when disputing the misconceptions.

      Geri – you might find his study on mystery Babylon very interesting and enlightening.

      Much of this is really mute points, we are certainly in the last days, we are the terminal generation, the season is upon us, per what we understand of Gods prophetic timeline, the taking of the Bride is next on the check off list, Then judging the earth and reconciliation of the Jewish nation, check. Millennium with beast in pit, check.
      Time of beast testing those born during millennium, check.
      Eternal fire, pit – eternal reign of the King of Kings, huge check!

      The call of God anyone! Practice those rapture exercises, up on toes – 1,2,3; arms raised, 1,2,3 great job everyone, give yourself a hand. Keep it up!

      :yahoo: :yahoo: :prayer-hands: :prayer-hands: :flyup: :flyup:

    • #11097

      Don’t forget the jump up, could be used as a springboard for the Rapture!

      Or, the tried and true method.  One knee down, two knees down, head bowed down, arms raised up!

      Or if you wanna mess with someone’s head simply arch your head back and look intently into the sky.  When people ask what your looking at say:  Is that Jesus I see coming!  That will definitely start some sort of conversation!


    • #11099

      I have personally been of the opinion for several years that the word (apostasia) in 2 Thessalonians 2 that has traditionally been translated falling away (as in falling away from the faith) has a very compelling argument to be made for physical departure, as in the rapture.  Just the fact that there is a definite article (the) in front of the word has always been problematic to me, because I never quite understood had you could tell when “the” falling away, somehow distinguished from all other “fallings away”, was actually occurring.  But there is much more evidence to take into consideration in the case for physical departure.  Andy Woods does a very thought provoking teaching on this, which I will include below.  JD wiavered on this several years ago.  At first, he was in the physical departure camp.  Then I think some “theological scholars” got to him and made him question that translation.  Now, I’m not sure, but I think he may have returned to the physical departure camp again.  Obviously not a salvaiton issue, but if physical departure is the correct meaning, it pretty much ends the debate about pre-trib.

    • #11119

      instead of falling down, a falling up :mdrmdr:

      or falling away (into heaven)


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