March 8, 2019 at 6:45 pm #1668
I posted this question and answer a few years ago but think it needs to be explored again. What do you think”
The Biblical account shows clearly that God has a method of operation that he has used over and over again. He has ALWAYS given prior notice before any major event happens to those that He has chosen and are part of the covenant He made with them. People of faith starting with Noah (7 day notice) and includes the children of Israel before crossing into the Promise land (3 day notice), Elijah before being taken up into heaven in the fiery chariot,(several days notice) Israel before leaving Egypt (3 or 4 day notice), Lot before the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah (a few hours), the disciples before the coming of the Holy Spirit on Pentecost ( 10 day notice)are just some of the major events that God gave prior notice. We should also consider the Rapture to be a major event in the lives of those of Faith and since God is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow, we can be sure His M.O. will be the same. Never doubt in the dark what God has shown in the light.
OK, since it would appear that we will receive some kind of notice before the rapture, just what method will He use? Think outside the box. Think supernatural maybe?? There is no right or wrong answer so jump right in with your thoughts.
March 8, 2019 at 8:05 pm #1674NoFearJustFaithParticipant
This isn’t much out of the box but I have always thought that, possibly 3 or so days before the rapture, we will all experience an overwhelming display of the Holy Spirit. I think we will be healing and bringing many to Christ in those last few days. There’s so many times that we see people who are close to death and after their death we see evidence that they knew it was their time. We will know too
Not sure what you were wanting, but hopefully it is ok now. Kolleen
March 8, 2019 at 10:00 pm #1684
March 10, 2019 at 1:35 am #1782
Yes Blake, God has given us angels to watch over us. For centuries they have been identified as “guardian angels”. It would be supernatural for us to see and hear them if God chose to use them to notify each of us. This would be my # one guess and for sure we all would have no doubt if that happened.
March 8, 2019 at 10:13 pm #1685
God shall definitely give us a warning and an event before the rapture. I have found the clue in Zechariah 11.
Zechariah 11:1 Open thy doors, O Lebanon, that the fire may devour thy cedars.
2 Howl, fir tree; for the cedar is fallen; because the mighty are spoiled: howl, O ye oaks of Bashan; for the forest of the vintage is come down.
3 There is a voice of the howling of the shepherds; for their glory is spoiled: a voice of the roaring of young lions; for the pride of Jordan is spoiled.
8 Three shepherds also I cut off in one month; and my soul lothed them, and their soul also abhorred me.
Through the prophet Zechariah, God has foretold one day He shall cut off three shepherds in one month. They are Lebanon, Syria ( Bashan ), and Jordan . Through out history, we couldn’t verify that this prophecy has been fulfilled. There is no biblical and historical evidence that the ancient Moab, Edom, Ammon (Jordan) together with Damascus ( Bashan ) and Tyre (Lebanon) were cut off together in one month. This prophecy shall be fulfilled per the fourth transgression in Amos 1-2, Isaiah 17/destruction of Damascus and Psalm 83.
But my focus point is on verse 10.
Zechariah 11:10 And I took my staff, even Beauty, and cut it asunder, that I might break my covenant which I had made with all the people. 11 And it was broken in that day: and so the poor of the flock that waited upon me knew that it was the word of the LORD.
Immediately after the three shepherds are cut off, God shall break the covenant with all the people. There have been few major covenants God has made with people. They are Noahic covenant, Abrahamic covenant, Mosaic covenant, Davidic covenant. None of the covenant can be broken because God promised not to destroy the whole earth again per Noahic covenant. God shall give the land to Abraham’s rightful descendant who is Israel. This prophecy is still waiting for it’s fulfillment. At the end of tribulation, after the return of Jesus, the Jews shall inherit the promised land.
[ The Mosaic covenant, found in Exodus 19–24 and the book of Deuteronomy, contains the foundations of the written Torah and the Oral Torah. In this covenant, God promises to make the Israelites his treasured possession among all people[Exo 19:5] and “a kingdom of priests and a holy nation”[Exo 19:6], if they follow God’s commandments. As part of the terms of this covenant, God gives Moses the Ten Commandments. These will later be elaborated on in the rest of the Torah. ]
Some bible scholars believe this is the covenant found in verse 10. Jesus has replaced this covenant. But we learn from God that the whole house of Israel shall be saved at the return of our Lord Jesus. (God only abandons them for a while, to makes His name known in the gentiles). God shall make them a kingdom of priests and a holy nation. Since this event is still waiting for the fulfillment, it doesn’t seem like this is the covenant which shall be broken in verse 10.
Concerning Davidic covenant, a King and a Messiah shall come from David’s lineage. The King and the Messiah is Jesus who shall rule over all the nations, This can’t be the covenant God shall break.
Since Zechariah is silent regarding which covenant shall be broken by God, back in 2009, I have interpreted this covenant to be the covenant God makes with the church. This covenant shall have a time expiry issue, that is, when God calls the church home, that will be the time God breaks the covenant with the church.
And immediately after this covenant is broken, God foretells the appearance of the foolish shepherd from verse 15 to 17. Many of us agree that the foolish shepherd is Anti Christ.
The sequence of the three prophetic events in Zechariah 11.
1/ Three shepherds being cut off in one month.
2/ God calls the church home by breaking the covenant with the church.
3/ Appearance of the foolish shepherd / AC.
Having said this, the church shall witness a war breaks out between Israel and the three shepherds. This war can only last one month because God says so. This war shall be our final witnessing tool to the church and the world before rapture takes place.
March 8, 2019 at 10:26 pm #1686
One more point I would like to add.
Zechariah 11:10 And I took my staff, even Beauty, and cut it asunder, that I might break my covenant which I had made with all the people.
The Beauty is “the church”. God calls the church “Beauty”. “cut it asunder” is perfecting the church. God has a covenant with the church. When her time is up, God shall call her home by breaking the covenant with all the people.
That leaves the other staff which God calls Bands.
Zechariah 11:14 Then I cut asunder mine other staff, even Bands, that I might break the brotherhood between Judah and Israel.
After the “Beauty” the church is gone in rapture, God shall begin to “cut asunder His other staff “Bands”. Bands is Israel. “breaking the brotherhood between Judah and Israel” speaks of separation of Judah from their homeland Israel during the second half of tribulation. This is known as “the times of Jacob’s trouble”. Concerning their ultimate fate, God has Zechariah continue prophesying the destiny of Judah in the following chapters 12, 13, up until Jesus’ return to mount Olive in chapter 14.
March 11, 2019 at 9:10 am #1912
You wrote: “God has a covenant with the church. When her time is up, God shall call her home by breaking the covenant with all the people.” I’m not following you here. When God calls His church home, He is fulfilling the covenant, not breaking it. To break it would be to cut off the church. In Zech chapter 11, Zechariah breaks the staff, Beauty, nullifying the covenant that restrained the Gentiles from oppressing God’s people. The connotation is not good. His covenant with the church is with His believers, not the unbelievers. The door is opened to all, but the covenant is for those who have accepted His Son’s sacrifice. Please understand, I am not saying you are wrong, I’m just not following you here. To your main point, “the church shall witness a war breaks out between Israel and the three shepherds”, you could very well be correct.
March 11, 2019 at 8:40 pm #1969
The word “break” is also understood as “cease to exist”, or in my case, makes the church ceased to exist by taking the church out of the earth. Also, God has clearly indicated that this is the covenant he has made with “all the people”. Mosaic covenant, Abrahamic covenant, Davidic covenant are the covenant God makes with selected people Abraham, David and Israelis. These covenants do not extend to all the people on earth which includes all the gentiles nations. Only the church covenant can see it extend to “all the people” on earth.
And there is a question regarding the timing of breaking this covenant. It takes place between God cutting off the three shepherds and the appearance of the foolish shepherd Anti Christ. Since these events are still in future, we need to ask ourselves which covenant is God going to break before the appearance of AC, and after three shepherds are cut off? At this moment, I can only think of the covenant God has made with his church.
God also calls the staff Beauty. Jesus has referred himself to bridegroom. So the church must be his bride. When God sees the church / bride is ready from her perfection, it prompts God calling the church “Beauty”. Having said this, the first staff “Beauty” represents the church.
March 9, 2019 at 8:41 pm #1758David W. RocheModerator
God has many quiet ways of letting us know His purposes. It might be a shared conviction among millions of believers that the time is at hand. Some would say we are already witnessing that. It might be a more direct communication as well, with angelic encounters, voices, undeniable dream experiences which leave us no room to question whether it is time to go.
March 10, 2019 at 4:15 am #1784
Based on this passage in Matt 27:51-53 … I think it could be a possible repeat …
At that moment the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom. The earth quaked and the rocks were split. The tombs broke open, and the bodies of many saints who had fallen asleep were raised. After Jesus’ resurrection, when they had come out of the tombs, they entered the holy city and appeared to many people.
Our heads up warning could be:
- we hear the trumpet/shofar
- a massive worldwide earthquake opening up the graves of the saints
- perhaps before they rise to the clouds our loved ones and friends appear at our doorstep?
Because check out this passage with the placement of the colons. Does that mean a short gap in time for each event? The first one is after “the trump of God” (the earthquake happens, graves are open and perhaps they appear before us before they ascend up?) Then they rise first in the clouds (notice another colon) and then we are caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air … then there is another colon perhaps showing it takes time to travel up to the 3rd heaven? I’m leaning towards the “Twinkling of the Eye” is for the changing of the body only but not the going up.
1 Thessalonians 4:16-17
For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
I Cor 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
March 10, 2019 at 7:56 pm #1858KolleenWStoneModerator
What it is, and what it isn’t.
When the word Rapture is mentioned, responses differ. Some people know it refers to Christ coming to take the church to heaven. Others incorrectly associate the rapture with Christ’s Second Coming. Still others have no idea what the Rapture is.
Confusion prevails, primarily because many churches seldom teach the subject today or lack biblical clarity when they do teach it. In some circles, people even dislike or ridicule the doctrine. Often the Rapture passages are spiritualized, stripping the text of its true meaning.
The Rapture of the church is a major doctrine in Scripture, and it is incumbent on us as Christians to understand the meaning of this important prophetic event.
The Rapture Defined
The word Rapture does not appear in the English Bible. It is a Latin word, raptura, that means to “seize, snatch, or be carried away.” The Greek word harpazō does appear in the Bible (1 Th. 4:17) and means the same thing as raptura. Thus the Rapture is clearly taught in Scripture.
The Greek word harpazō does appear in the Bible (1 Th. 4:17) and means the same thing as raptura. Thus the Rapture is clearly taught in Scripture.
Two central passages describe the Rapture: 1 Thessalonians 4:13–18 and 1 Corinthians 15:50–54. The Rapture refers to when Jesus Christ will descend from heaven with a shout, the voice of an archangel, and the trumpet of God to gather all true Christians to heaven. Those who already died and those living will be caught up together to meet the Lord in the air (1 Th. 4:16–17).
The event will happen suddenly, without prophetic signs or warning. When we are transported to heaven, we will be physically transformed in the twinkling of an eye to receive glorified bodies preparing us for life in eternity. The apostle Paul wrote, “In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality” (1 Cor. 15:52–53). Our “corruptible” sin natures will be instantly eradicated, and we will experience perfection in body, soul, and spirit.
Paul said Christ will “transform our lowly body that it may be conformed to His glorious body” (Phil. 3:21). Every believer’s body will be refashioned in a resurrected form (but still recognizable), as was Christ’s body. The apostle John assured us that we “shall be like Him” (1 Jn. 3:2).
Every believer’s body will be refashioned in a resurrected form (but still recognizable), as was Christ’s body. What was Christ like in His resurrected body? He could appear and vanish (Lk. 24:31); and He could walk, talk, eat, and rise into heaven (Jn. 21:21–25; Acts 1:11). He was not bound by gravity, time, or space; and He could travel at will from one place to another instantly. When we are raptured, we will possess the same abilities in our glorified bodies, but we do not know yet to what extent.
The Relationship Described
Our relationship with Jesus Christ resembles that of a bridegroom and his bride. John the Baptist first used this analogy in John 3:28–30. He taught that Christ is the Bridegroom, and the church is His bride.
Although the phrase bride of Christ is not in the New Testament, the idea appears throughout Scripture (cf. 2 Cor. 11:2; Eph. 5:23–27; Rev. 19:7; 21:9), providing great insight concerning our unbreakable union with Christ. It pictures the intimacy we enjoy with Him, like that of a husband and wife (the most private, personal bond possible in life).
The Rapture refers to when Jesus Christ will descend from heaven with a shout, the voice of an archangel, and the trumpet of God to gather all true Christians to heaven. This union is a “great mystery” (Eph. 5:32), something unknowable unless God reveals it. Paul said specifically he was speaking in Ephesians 5:23–29 about more than human marriage; he was speaking about “Christ and the church” (v. 32).
The Rapture Distinctives
Many Christians associate the Rapture with Christ’s Second Coming. This is a mistake because these events are distinct from each other; and it is important to understand the differences:
At the Rapture, believers meet Christ in the air (1 Th. 4:17). At Christ’s Second Coming to Earth, no meeting takes place (Zech. 14:4).
At the Rapture, only born-again believers will see Christ come (Jn. 14:3). At the Second Coming, the entire world will see Him (Mt. 24:30; Rev. 1:7).
At the Rapture, believers are taken to heaven (Jn. 14:3). Unbelievers remain on Earth to endure the Tribulation.
At the Second Coming, believers return to Earth with Christ to enter the Millennial Kingdom (Mt. 25:34). Unbelievers who survive the Great Tribulation will never enter the Kingdom; they will be purged and thrown into everlasting fire (v. 41).
At the Rapture, Christ returns for His church (1 Th. 4:17). At the Second Coming, His church returns with Him to rule on Earth during the Millennial Kingdom (Rev. 19:14).
The Rapture is imminent. No signs or events must precede it. Many signs and events occur before Christ’s Second Coming (Mt.24:4–30).
The Great Tribulation—when God unleashes His wrath on Earth—will not affect believers because they will already have been raptured (1 Th. 5:9). The Great Tribulation will torment unbelievers, all of whom will be left on Earth (Rev. 6—18).
Although the church is mentioned 19 times in the first three chapters of the book of Revelation, it is not mentioned again until Revelation 22. In other words, Scripture does not mention the word church when dealing with God’s Tribulation wrath in Revelation 6—18, but it does talk about unbelievers and how they will suffer and die (6:8; 8:11).
The Rapture Deliverance
The Rapture’s major mission is to deliver the church from God’s wrathful judgment of sinful humanity, which will afflict the entire earth. Paul told the Thessalonian church, “Wait for His [God’s] Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, even Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come” (1 Th. 1:10).
The Rapture’s major mission is to deliver the church from God’s wrathful judgment of sinful humanity, which will afflict the entire earth. After speaking of the Rapture (4:16–17), Paul said, “For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ” (5:9). Notice, God did not “appoint” (destine) Christians, who possess salvation, to experience His eschatological wrath. That event is planned for sinners who reject Him.
Many ask, “If God is going to pour out His judgment on sinful humanity, and Christians are still sinful even after we have received Christ, why would He deliver only Christians from His wrath in the Great Tribulation and not others?” Because Christ’s sacrifice of Himself was applied as payment for our sin when we accepted Him as Savior; we received Christ’s righteousness: “For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him” (2 Cor. 5:21). So God sees us as having His righteousness, obtained through faith in Christ.
However, if we reject Him, He does not see us that way, and “the wrath of God abides on [us]” (Jn. 3:36). If we receive Christ as our Savior, Christ’s sacrifice is laid on our account and pays for our sin. We are no longer under God’s condemnation or wrath (Rom. 8:1; 1 Th. 5:9). If we do not receive Christ, we must pay for our sin ourselves, and “the wages of sin is death” (Rom. 6:23).
God showers His mercy and grace on repentant sinners and withholds the punishment we deserve. In addition, in His grace, He provides the unmerited favor we do not deserve.
Today we live in the age of grace, or the Church Age. It is so named because Jesus said, “I will build My church” (Mt. 16:18). The Church Age began on the Day of Pentecost (Acts 2) and will end at the Rapture (1 Th. 4:13–18). But God’s program continues through the Great Tribulation and into the Millennial Kingdom and eternity.
Church saints will return with Christ at the Second Coming, clothed in pure white linen that symbolizes their righteous acts, and they will rule and reign with Him for 1,000 years (Rev. 19:8, 14; 20:4; cf. 2:26–28; 3:21).
What a glorious plan God has established for those who put their faith in Christ for salvation. Have you?
The Friends of Israel
Jan/Feb 2018 IMG In Depth: David Levy Interview
March 10, 2019 at 10:10 pm #1886HeidiParticipant
March 11, 2019 at 2:41 am #1904
I think another clue that the flying away process might be slower and not the “twinkling of an eye” when our bodies are changed, is this passage below.
It has me also wondering … if the unsaved will witness us flying away into the clouds?
8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.
9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.
March 11, 2019 at 4:08 am #1909
I still have not heard any reason or presentation of any evidence that God will not give us prior notice before the Rapture event. As far as the “twinkling of an eye” phrase, it is referring to the changing of our bodies from corruptible to incorruptible and not the length of time it takes to meet our Bridegroom in the air.
March 11, 2019 at 9:06 am #1911
Yes, I believe the church will get a prior heads up warning … Noah had heads up warning. Both Abraham and Lot had heads up warning before the judgment of Sodom and Gomorrah. I’m leaning it might be angels that tell us since they are administering spirits.
Just not sure if its a 3, 5, 7 or 8 day heads up notice for the church.
The number 3 means completeness, though to a lesser degree than 7. The 3 righteous patriarchs before the flood were Abel, Enoch and Noah. After the deluge there was the righteous “fathers” Abraham, Isaac and Jacob (later renamed Israel).
The number 5 symbolizes God’s grace, goodness and favor towards man. “Age of Grace” comes to a close at the time of the rapture.
The number 7 means completeness and perfection (both physical and spiritual).
The number 8 represents a new beginning, meaning a new order or creation, and man’s true ‘born again’ event when he is resurrected from the dead into eternal life.
March 11, 2019 at 9:52 am #1916
Perhaps the Lord will use our pets to warn us and instead of them barking or meowing they will speak “get ready … its time to go”?
Those that don’t have pets, perhaps the neighbor’s pet or a wild animal or a bird will give them heads up warning?
The animal kingdom have such good hearing and will probably hear the trumpet/shofar in the distance way before us.
The Lord used Balaam’s donkey to speak. Eve had conversations with the snake before the fall. I believe we will be hearing the animals and our pets talk in the next life. They are included in the praise and worship ceremony in heaven!
11 And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands;
12 Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing.
13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.
March 11, 2019 at 12:33 pm #1919
March 11, 2019 at 7:34 pm #1950TxThomModerator
The apocryphal Book of Jubilees touches on that subject, sort of:
And God cursed the serpent, and was wroth with it for ever . . .
And He was wroth with the woman, because she harkened to the voice of the serpent, and did eat; and He said unto her: ‘I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy pains: in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children, and thy return shall be unto thy husband, and he will rule over thee.’
And to Adam also he said, ‘ Because thou hast harkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree of which I commanded thee that thou shouldst not eat thereof, cursed be the ground for thy sake: thorns and thistles shall it bring forth to thee, and thou shalt eat thy bread in the sweat of thy face, till thou returnest to the earth from whence thou wast taken; for earth thou art, and unto earth shalt thou return.’
And He made for them coats of skin, and clothed them, and sent them forth from the Garden of Eden.
And on that day on which Adam went forth from the Garden, he offered as a sweet savour an offering, frankincense, galbanum, and stacte, and spices in the morning with the rising of the sun from the day when he covered his shame.
And on that day was closed the mouth of all beasts, and of cattle, and of birds, and of whatever walks, and of whatever moves, so that they could no longer speak: for they had all spoken one with another with one lip and with one tongue.
And He sent out of the Garden of Eden all flesh that was in the Garden of Eden, and all flesh was scattered according to its kinds, and according to its types unto the places which had been created for them.
And to Adam alone did He give (the wherewithal) to cover his shame, of all the beasts and cattle. http://www.pseudepigrapha.com/jubilees/3.htm
This has made me wonder [if at all true, which isn’t certain] if in the Millennial Kingdom the lion lays down with the lamb because they are all talking together again. But if that’s true, how stunning the required sacrifices Ezekiel describes will be.
March 11, 2019 at 8:46 pm #1971
Hear the scapegoat say, “It’s a far far better thing I do than I have ever done. It’s a far far greater place I go to than I have ever gone…”
Wait a minute! Will there be a scapegoat in the Millennium?
I used to wonder why Adam and Eve were not amazed at there being a talking serpent. There must have been either changes in serpents’ throats, lungs, tongues, vocal cords and so forth, or maybe more reasonably, communication among living beings not limited to audio voicing, glottal fricatives, and so forth. Ecclesiastes 3:21 implies animals have spirits. Do you communicate spiritually? Ideally it’s regularly every day. Just look into your dog’s adoring eyes. That’s spiritual!
Well, if our two house cats or our dog start wandering saying out loud in English or Spanish, “It’s almost time for the Rapture,” I’ll probably just retort, “Tell me something I don’t already know!”
March 11, 2019 at 7:43 pm #1952
This has always been a subject near and dear to my heart! For even in the study of the traditional Jewish wedding we are given a prophetic model. For as the bridegroom is released to gather his bride, a boisterous wedding party with much fan fare and music heralds the bridegrooms appearance! So too in the parable of the virgins, a cry was made at midnight. The bridegroom cometh! Can the beloved bride of Christ expect any less! Many speculations have already been shared, and all individually plausible. The hard fact remains; we shall be given an advance herald before we are raptured! Remembering as well that angels were indeed often used to herald great tidings from God! Either way, in any event, the Blessed Hope is not diminished! But rather to bring exceeding comfort & joy!
PS: Why I use the moniker of Tender Reed. Firstly, I believe that it was given me by the Lord. Secondly, it is something I wish to aspire to achieve.
Likewise the doctrinal assertion of an advance warning or “heads up” for the Bride prior to our departure, does inspire anxious and longing hearts.
March 13, 2019 at 4:00 pm #2141
March 13, 2019 at 5:45 pm #2150
I think you mean Mk 16:15. Mat 28:15 says “So they took the money and did as they were instructed; and this saying is commonly reported among the Jews until this day.”
In every other place in Scripture that the Great Commission is given, Mat 28:18-20, Luk 24:44-49, Act 1:8, the words “nations” and “end of the earth” are used. (Joh 20:19-23 is considered to be a Great Commission statement but doesn’t read like the other passages) Only in Mk 16:15 is the word “creature” used. The Greek word is κτισει, which translates: of individual things, beings, a creature, a creation . In both Galatians 6:15; 2 Corinthians 5:17 this same word κτισει, or creature is used of a man regenerated through Christ.
Now, with that said, perhaps Mark was telling us to practice our preaching on our pets!
March 11, 2019 at 9:10 pm #1974
Given that we will not have to physically remove ourselves for the rapiemur, or harpazo, as Noah did and Lot did, I am curious why the Lord would give us advanced warning, other than if He wanted us to go out and tell all we could what was about to happen. Given that it is a snatching away, it seems to me it would be instantaneously.Your thoughts?
March 11, 2019 at 9:37 pm #1978
I agree that the “snatching away” will be instantaneous, however, just like the Israelites at Mt. Sinai or on the East side of the Jordan river, God notified them many hours and up to 3 days before they were to “move out”, why wouldn’t He do the same for the Rapture. After all, God is faithful and predictable in His actions towards those He loves and has called unto Himself.
March 11, 2019 at 11:59 pm #1997
March 12, 2019 at 5:52 pm #2073
Yohanan, the Lord is considerate of our loving and anxious hearts! I also have to believe that Jesus is just as anxious as we are! Wouldn’t a bride get more than a last minute notice?! And given the private nature of the Rapture, being only between the groom and the bride, before He sweeps us off our feet, He might just present us with a gift. The gift of the knowledge that He has kept His promise!
March 12, 2019 at 6:01 pm #2076
March 13, 2019 at 4:20 pm #2142
March 12, 2019 at 7:14 pm #2085
Our marriage to Christ follows the ancient Jewish tradition. In ancient times, when the groom arrived, the groom’s ten male witnesses would announce his arrival with a shofar and calls from his own voice to the bride and her maidens. Both 1 Cor 15:52 and 1Th 4:16 give a similar description, but I think 1Th 4:16 is more descriptive: For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first. Its wording indicates that as He is descending from Heaven, He is giving the shout. In ancient times this was the only way the bride knew her husband to-be was arriving. If we are given any warning, I believe it will be by seeing the dead rise first, although it seems to me that, unlike Mat 7:52-53, the dead would be raised in spirit only, and not with their decayed bodies. The reason I do not believe we will be given a last minute notice is because we are told to always be prepared for His return. Mat 24:42 Watch therefore, for you do not know what hour your Lord is coming.
I believe God gave the Israelites hours or up to three days notice to “move out” because they had to break camp and transport their material possessions with them, which took time to prepare. When we are snatched up, we won’t be taking anything with us, so there would be no need to give us time to get ready. Besides, just the words “snatched up” strongly implies immediacy, otherwise the Lord would have used words like “gathered up”. Also there is Mat 24:40 Then two men will be in the field: one will be taken and the other left. Again, this show immediacy. Following that is Mat 24:41 Two women will be grinding at the mill: one will be taken and the other left. Gone instantly.
And what would be the purpose of giving us advanced notice? When He comes for us the last person to be saved under the dispensation of Grace will have already occurred so it’s not likely He would have us go witness to people. The time for witnessing will be over.
By the way, ancient Jewish weddings took place on a Wednesday, if the bride was a virgin, and Thursday if the bride was a widow. I suspect the Church is considered a virgin. Something to think about :)
It’s fun to muse about getting advanced warning but I can’t find any Biblical reference to support it.
March 12, 2019 at 9:52 pm #2099
Sooo back to no heads up notices?
However, every Wednesday is considered a high watch date for a Jewish wedding.
Well … Tuesday, April 9th is the Israeli elections …. wonder if the peace treaty announcement will be unveiled on Wednesday, April 10th and then the church leaves? Or will it be the following Wednesday, April 17th?
March 12, 2019 at 10:01 pm #2102
March 12, 2019 at 6:33 pm #2081
March 12, 2019 at 10:18 pm #2108
Sometimes I feel He’s already giving us a heads up, or should I say look up for your redemption draweth nigh. I feel it will be angelic by the Holy Spirit in each and every heart of the children of our God, dreams, visions angelic encounters and yes maybe even animals, to say nature itself. But after the Holy Spirit seals us we can be sure we will be airborne. But as Tender Reed said he has and is turning the unbelieving over to a reprobate mind, so I’m afraid we will not have great luck convincing others after we are made aware. But do not ever give up, even the most deluded can be reached by truth and love.
I also wish to make it clear that I love all my brothers and sisters here, and everywhere and wish to be here in fellowship till that day and then for eternity . This I pray.
love in Christ
your brother Blake
March 12, 2019 at 10:42 pm #2115gratefulforgraceParticipant
I almost half way expect to see the dead in Christ make a quick appearance (maybe their glorified bodies only on their way up to meet their spirits that are with Jesus in the air??) as we are about to be snatched up- but only to those close to them who are heading up too & for only a second- just passing by loved ones long enough to be recognized and help us know what’s going on??! (But it’d be exciting and comforting & not scary.)
Otherwise, no…to me, the ancient wedding traditions are too telling to think there will be more than what God already told us- the shout, the voice, the trumpet – (like Yohanan wrote from the Bible & Jewish traditions.) I think only we will hear this and it will be a split second before being snatched up…I don’t think their will be a warning for people “on the fence” or unbelievers & we all know if we knew ahead of time that we’d be trying extra hard to warn and explain…we better do it- as individually lead in ways and to whom He says to- now- while we still can.
March 12, 2019 at 11:28 pm #2116
I also expect to high-five the two end time witnesses on our way up. Goofy, but possible. Or will they already be on Earth waiting on the Lord?
Though the Church views the Rapture as our redemption in real time, and as the greatest validation of our Faith. It is also a judgement of sorts against those left behind! As they were found as unworthy to be His bride!
Salvation will still be available to whosoever, but sadly at a much higher personal cost. Dodging the judgements of God and the rage of men, time to choose Christ will be in short supply. Some may have only an instant to decide their eternal fate!
Given the nearness of His return, these issues importance are greatly magnified.
Mercy in your judgements Lord!
March 13, 2019 at 12:18 am #2119
LOL “High Fiving” the 2 witnesses as we fly away … yep I think its possible because the flying away could be slower for everyone to watch. It will separate the unsaved into 2 groups – those that continue to refuse to believe the Truth … it will cause them to believe the BIG lie that aliens took us away. And others who heard the Truth but put it off … will finally believe and become the tribulation saints.
From this verse … it looks like the age of accountability might be 19 years and younger that are still covered under the blood and they also get raptured out.
Every one that passeth among them that are numbered, from twenty years old and above, shall give an offering unto the Lord.
The 2 witnesses do have their work cut out for themselves along with the 144,000 … It’s comforting to know they will be VERY successful in their ministry:
“After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.”
March 13, 2019 at 5:41 pm #2149GloryboundParticipant
Just a thought here…in the old testament, people did not have the help of the Holy Spirit residing within them, only coming upon them at times. I have always thought there would be a 7 day warning or such, but I kind of wonder if possibly our warning now will come through the Spirit just before we go.
Just a thought…and yes maybe I’d better think again…I really, really hope we have some kind of warning…but no matter how it happens…Oh, please come quickly Lord!!!!!!! I love you so much!!!!!
March 13, 2019 at 6:02 pm #2152
March 13, 2019 at 6:38 pm #2160
The reason I want a heads up notice is … I know this is going to sound silly … but I want my place “white glove” (i.e. all the laundry done, I will toss out all the perishable food in the refrig to the outside trash can). Plus I don’t want to be cooking or using the faucet when the rapture occurs. I also want to leave Bible’s on various tables with Bible tracts all before departure so when whoever breaks in to steal things … hopefully they will want those and they won’t say man that homeowner was messy.
I would also like to say one last prayer to those I’m close to that are still not saved.
Note: I’m still not ruling out the rapture could occur on a Sunday because the Lord arose on the first day of the week (Sunday). However, I’m now also marking every Wednesday as a possibility as well.
March 13, 2019 at 8:34 pm #2178
March 13, 2019 at 11:07 pm #2193
Oh Geri, you said, “Plus I don’t want to be cooking or using the faucet when the rapture occurs.” If what you had was a three days or less notice, with those cautions you may well be raptured both hungry and smelly. Maybe you should plan to go to a motel and only order room service. Then if the faucet was left on or something it would not be a reflection on you.
March 13, 2019 at 11:40 pm #2194
LOL … oh, no fear about being hungry … I’ve made provisions …. I will eat the old stand by …. a peanut butter and jelly sandwich. Or open a can of soup and heat it up in the microwave. Will munch on candy, potato chips.
But you do have a good point about the washing up at a local motel.
Last year on high watch Rosh Hashanah day …. I was driving to the post office at 1:00 pm and I kid you not … on the side street where I had to make a left hand turn into the post office parking lot … there was a pair of men’s dress slacks, a dress shirt and tie just laying there on the pavement. My heart skipped a beat and I did a double take as I drove around the clothes and thought … did I just miss hearing that trumpet blast?!! It was truly an eerie sight! I’m still trying to figure out how someone could have drop their dress clothes like that AND on that particular day! Perhaps that guy who drop his clothes was heading to the motel to wash up?
March 14, 2019 at 8:22 am #2200
That’s funny! “Behold, someone showed you a mystery…” Maybe it was a suit left there by that well-tanned angel in the elevator, or from one of his friends who didn’t need the suit at the time and intentionally left it for someone in need who found it after you drove by. B-). Or maybe some absent minded laundry service driver drove off having hung it on the door handle.
March 14, 2019 at 8:58 am #2201
I love it … The angel was quickly assigned to another emergency duty and didn’t need the clothings! LOL
Or perhaps … the owner is an end time watcher and was walking quickly to the dry cleaners (it’s a few blocks away) and accidentally drop them while trying to get his house in order before sundown to midnight watch.
March 13, 2019 at 7:53 pm #2173
For myself, I would get to enjoy the sense of deep satisfaction in the knowledge that my Faith had been justified, in this realm! Faith fulfilled.
Tie up any loose ends with those that I know! As well as being able to whole heartedly direct my whole being upon Him! Discarding all of life’s concerns.
March 17, 2019 at 11:00 pm #2511TheWayParticipant
Will we get a heads-up before the rapture? I think that watchers will know when the rapture is about to take place through the Holy Spirit. We have already been given so many pointers. However, I think that many believers will miss the joyous anticipation of our ‘removal’ because they don’t know or believe it, or they believe that we will go through some or all of the tribulation. Maybe the resurrection of the dead in Christ will be the event that will turn the eyes of every believer toward the heavens in expectation of our Saviour. I always wondered if there was some time between the translation of the dead in Christ and those who remain. Why two separate mass movements? Maybe for the benefit of those believers who are uninformed, unaware or unfocused on Him.
March 17, 2019 at 11:37 pm #2513
March 18, 2019 at 2:09 am #2518AnonymousInactive
I love this thread! Plus, it reminded me of a time several years back during the four blood moons.
I remember I was having many more dreams and flash visions then for whatever reason than I am now, but reading this thread took me back to one specific moment when I was in my bathroom drying my hair.
Just as I had turned off the blow dryer, I heard a lion roar from down the hallway. Yes, that’s right…a Lion! lol. I was actually startled because I had a small Maltese dog at that time and she sure didn’t roar! Ha
So I slowly peeked around the door and down the hallways just to make sure no lion wandered into my then townhome! lol like that would happen in the city?!!
But my point is that I remembered that after clicking on this thread…soooo, who can say we won’t hear the roar of the Lion of Judah right before we are called to come home?
just a nice lil thought! Love ya’ll and can’t wait to meet each of my beautiful siblings!
March 18, 2019 at 7:12 am #2525churchgalParticipant
I would love to have a heads up by at least a few hours so that I could without restraint plead with those family members of mine that are not saved. We have had many talks and I have prayed for them many times but at this time, but while we have not fought about it or developed hurt feelings, they still have not made a decision to follow Jesus. If we had that certainty of timing by whatever means…angels, trumpets, animals..I would then plead ever harder with them and use the warning as evidence….evidence to them, none needed for me.
March 18, 2019 at 1:03 pm #2541
April 2, 2019 at 8:32 pm #3336BeckyEParticipant
Thank you, TR, for pointing me to this thread! What a delight to read!
Has anyone here had any warning? Other than I felt like God said, “You won’t be here” twice when asking about summer, and understanding that it could mean many things, I don’t have much to add. And usually He just speaks to me in Bible Verses, so this caught my attention!
I love the idea of animals talking! I also love the thought it could be resurrected saints – how wonderful to see my grandparents again! I do think He can communicate to our Spirit – but so many aren’t listening.
I recently read about the church of Laodicea and something stood out to me. He says, “I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice…” And to hear his voice, as a church, we need to be listening. For that matter, we need to believe He can speak to us! And so many don’t…
Keep listening and looking up! :)
April 2, 2019 at 9:07 pm #3341
Indeed you make a good point. You can’t hear Him if your not listening!
Given enough time, we could all find something to occupy what little time we would have left.
Two things would grip my heart. Firstly, my faith would be totally and gloriously validated! Secondly, I could then truly release every care and worry I might carry.
April 3, 2019 at 3:17 am #3346WendyParticipant
April 3, 2019 at 5:04 am #3347
I may be wrong I admit totally, however with all the prophecy that is in the Bible. Gods word, he has given us a heads up. He tells us about the seasons, the fig tree, all the signs . Earthquakes, all about Israel and when we read the news everyday we see all these things coming true. Libya was a question in my mind but just read how Russia is now becoming involved there recently. The peace deal, the Golan heights , the finding of all the oil and gas. Just read a mineral not thought to exist on earth just found in Israel. The plans and all that’s already for the third temple. It seems everyday more and more is coming together. Other than a direct ” hey here I come” I can not see what more we need to know , His word is true, He is coming. No one but the Father knows the day and time. That’s that. But I’m looking up , I do everyday as I walk, lucky I have not hurt myself walking into something or hit by a car, I’m always looking up. He has been so good to me, yes I’m sick, however he has supplied my needs and keep me clothed, I have food, and a roof over my head. I often wonder after being so sick for so long why? He knows and I believe there must be a reason. His MO to me is He loves His children, I’m not rich, I’m very poor, at least according to this world. This frees me from any attachment to this world. Thanks for reading, I’m just going to keep looking up, pray and do His will the best I can. Thank you to all those who pray for me, please do not stop. This world is so evil, right is wrong and wrong is right, I think how things might be if the 2016 election had been different. How much worse things might be, but day by day this world is more evil, that’s my thoughts.
Love in Christ, your brother Blake
April 3, 2019 at 4:50 pm #3394
Indeed, what else to do we need to see? His thoughts and ways are higher and more perfect than ours!
It just seems that we’re just here to see the show and watch the coming attractions
Make no mistake! He will come! He will call us unto Himself! He will make us His Bride! He will enjoy us until infinity and beyond!
I think He carries a picture of each of us in His wallet!
May 15, 2019 at 11:50 am #4821yhwhtalmidahParticipant
Okay, so I thought I would throw in my two cents. I have often struggled with this idea. Please do not misunderstand me, I would LOVE to have a heads-up that the rapture was imminent. I can see where there could be references to an early warning (those given in the old testament before a major event, etc.), but there are also the words of Jesus that come to mind when he tells the pharisees that they can read the weather, but did not interpret the signs of his coming (And again, my mind whirls with the idea that this would be a scolding to the body of Israel and not the church). Enoch walked with God and then he was taken. We do not know if he had a warning. Others were visited by angels or the Lord himself to give warnings and commands of preparation, BUT, this was all before the age of grace (the church age). The church was a mystery. The more I study Paul, the more it seems that we are taken instantly and the world is shocked. So I guess I am on a see-saw about this idea of a warning. I would love one – time given to get my affairs in order, not be driving, and contact those loved ones with a last plead – but I do not see any concrete reference to one given in the New Testament. I would love to hash this out though if y’all have more scriptures to study on this!
May 15, 2019 at 4:42 pm #4829
Couldn’t it be possible that indeed the world will be taken by surprise, and the Bride be given a heads up?!
The reason being that the Rapture event is a private and personal moment between Christ and His Bride! Not for the world, or unbelievers!
As stated, there has been much precedent which is reflective of the Lord’s heart with regards to those He loves!
And if we hold to the Jewish marriage traditions, which I believe were given as a template, a boisterous enterage is utilized as the groom approaches his bride to be. Or the constant communications between Solomon and Shulamite bride is in view! God’s heart has always been revealed. Prophecy speaks to this as well. It’s one of His attributes, as part of His character!
What bride was not given the details and location of her upcoming betrothal, let alone it’s appointed time?
Elijah was given the day and probable nature of his rapture! Just as we are given every detail of our Rapture!
In any event, a heads up is not critical to the Rapture’s fulfillment, but I can easily see the Lord gifting His bride to be with some advance knowledge of it’s timing!
We also speak at length to the Lord’s exactness in details and His timing historically. Why would this be conveniently altered for the greatest and most intimate moment between two lovers?!
May 15, 2019 at 5:24 pm #4835
According to I Thess 5: 2-9 … I think the clue could actually be in this passage … I’m leaning towards our heads up might be tied in with the peace deal announcement in June. We are watchers and staying alert so that day will not be a surprise to us. We just need to be on extra high alert and when we hear/read of the actual day and time Trump or Kushner will announce the peace treaty … then that will give us the warning of how many days and/or hours we might have left to prepare before flying out of here. Granted if we are still here after they announce the deal … then that means we just need to stay a little while longer until they revise the plan to “please” the many and … again wait to hear that next date/time for the next announcement. Or am I totally off with this reasoning?
I Thess 5:2-9
For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.
Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.
For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.
But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.
For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
May 16, 2019 at 7:51 pm #4863
This tie in could be altogether possible, but we will have no way of having it as a definitive sign.
The whole idea of an advance warning or heads up is that it will be a supernatural confirmation sent by the throne room of Heaven, specifically for the Bride of Christ. With no room for doubt, speculation or fear!
As the scriptures you quoted state, indeed the world shall be taken by surprise not watching or expecting such an event. Yet the Blessed Hope is embraced by the true Church! For the obtaining of our salvation, from the Lord Himself!
Yes Virginia, Christmas was real and so is the Rapture!
Again to repeat, God has always been proactive regarding keeping His children informed!
We see a picture or template of this with Sodom and Gomorrah. Lot and his family were given at most a 12 hr advance warning! So what has changed in the Lord’s heart?! Who knows how much time Elijah was given. It was time enough to share with the college of prophets so that they could be there to act as witnesses! It is just as reasonable to believe Enoch was also given the day of His rapture! And Christ himself left witnesses of His ascension!!!
Why this premise causes so much difficulty within the body of Christ, is truly beyond me! We embrace every truth and miracle of the Word as gospel, except that of our Blessed Hope!
Even Paul, thought the Rapture would occur in his lifetime. His expectation girded his faith!
Faith enough for the Rapture, but not for God’s divine disclosure. My, my, my!
May 16, 2019 at 9:54 pm #4866
I can see how Paul was looking for the rapture during his time since the early church was being persecuted. Plus I don’t think the entire Bible was completed … or was the book of Revelation available to the early church? And if it were … would the early church even be able to understand it fully like we do today since it requires electronics, nuclear war, etc. all this would have been foreign to them to comprehend.
May 16, 2019 at 8:49 pm #4864
Wasn’t it Paul who taught, behold I shew you a mystery?!
Could the advance warning also be a mystery!?
In any event the theme of this thread is to point to what the Lord has done in the past, and to reveal His heart to the saints of God!
Again, I am not preaching this as gospel, but rather an I wouldn’t be surprised moment!
May 17, 2019 at 12:06 pm #4874yhwhtalmidahParticipant
I absolutely hope y’all are right about a warning. Tenderreed, you made a connection that I did not think about. Yes, the world will be utterly shocked and devastated by the rapture, but that doesn’t mean that we won’t receive a sign. I am not sure why I had it fixed in my head that it was one or the other. True, Sodom & Gomorrah were shocked (though not for long) by God’s judgment, but Lot was warned and snatched from danger. The world was shocked by the flood (though they were warned and mocked that warning – sound familiar), no doubt, but Noah and his family were warned over 100 years before it would occur… hmmm… today of all days, I do need that hope that we will somehow know soon that Jesus is about to call us home.
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