Wonder if….

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    • #38528
      tenderreed
      Participant

      Wonder if when we gather at the staging area (clouds), if we will hear a closing of the door to the age of grace?!

      TR

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    • #38529
      Tammie
      Participant

      Slammed shut for sure! :yahoo:
      Personally, I’ll be like a kid in a candy shop with a look of amazement and awe, topped with a heavy dose of unparalleled excitement :yahoo:

      praying its soon for sure! :prayer-hands:

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    • #38531
      tenderreed
      Participant

      Blessings in this life and the next for all those who love Christ and long for His appearing!

      Special blessings for all my favorites here at RITAN!

      TR

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    • #38540
      Arthur
      Participant

      Please forgive my nitpicking. I find the Age of Grace to be a misnomer.

      Even people in the Tribulation will be saved by grace.  Grace =unmerited favour.  Obviously,  no one has ever deserved salvation so it has always been by grace throughout history.

      That’s the way I see it.  It is by grace alone (No one deserves salvation), through faith alone (no one can earn salvation), through Christ alone.  (There is only one Saviour.)

      I prefer the Church Age.  Perhaps I am picking nits?  Feedback would be appreciated as I could be wrong here.

      Anyway, your point is interesting,  though.  Will we be staged in the clouds and hear something or will we be whisked straight to heaven?

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    • #38543
      Amy
      Participant

      Paul was given the commission to go to the Gentiles to tell them the gospel of grace, and it was through faith that Jesus died, was buried and rose again the 3rd day according to the scriptures.

      Ephesians 2:8 KJVS
      For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

      Before this, it was a works based grace.

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      • #38555
        Arthur
        Participant

        I don’t agree with works based grace. At least from man’s perspective.

        The only works that were done were the works of salvation by Jesus Christ.

        It has always been by faith in the Messiah and his redemptive work.  Looking forward in the Old Testament and looking back after the death, burial and resurrection of Christ.

        Just the way I see it,  anyway.  Please don’t take it the wrong way.

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    • #38544
      tenderreed
      Participant

      Indeed splitting hairs.  But what’s a few hairs between friends!

      I was always surprised by this staging area and the lack of mention regarding our entrance into Heaven!

      As such, it seems we may spend some time there.  IE:  Getting to know the saints day, if you will!

      Before we enter the Huppa with Christ!

      For while there we shall stand outside of time!

      TR

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    • #38545
      Amy
      Participant

      1 Corinthians 15:52 KJVS
      In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

      1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 KJVS
      For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: [17] Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

      I think this is what you were referring to, please correct me if I misunderstood your question. We will all be here on earth doing our everyday thing, when that trump sounds its time to fly! :flyup:

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      • #38546
        Amy
        Participant

        Yup!! Totally misunderstood! :mdrmdr: :mdrmdr: :mdrmdr: :mdrmdr: :mdrmdr:   I think we will hear a door close and then hear all the heavenly host singing praises to our Savior.

        Sorry, I am really tired. Its bed time for me haha

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    • #38557
      Geri7
      Participant

      I wouldn’t at all be surprised to hear the church age door slam shut … like the Lord shut the door on the ark as well.

      I wonder now if the rapture happens on Halloween or Nov 1st … it will disrupt the roll-out of the vaxx for a little while because of the outbreak of chaos and confusion?   I used to think that the left behind would be happy to see us go … I’m now rethinking that thought … the fact the Restrainer will completely stop holding back the evil … it will be so dark and hellish instantly … anything goes for the demonic forces and Nephilims, etc. and the left behind will feel the evil cloud over them.  How could they be celebrating?  Especially if their young children and saved loved ones are suddenly gone … and everything they held dear and treasured collapses … the world economy, food shortages, etc.   And with so many are out of work right now … those unsaved who were married to saved spouses that still had a job and was the bread winner are now gone.  So I’m now looking at this differently …  I lean that most of the left behind will miss the believers that have disappeared.  And there is a great revival that occurs AFTER the rapture.

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    • #38558
      Arthur
      Participant

      I agree.  I think there will be a great revival.  Many will be saved and die for their faith in Jesus Christ.

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    • #38559
      tenderreed
      Participant

      Thankfully we were only called to die to self, sin and satan!

      They didn’t consider the cost before the Rapture, so the cost (martydom), will consider them!

      TR

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    • #38615
      Yohanan
      Moderator

      The Tribulation Period is not included in the Age of Grace. Believers during the Trib will not have the Holy Spirit residing in them the way He does in us. They can lose their salvation. The Church Age is the only Age of Grace.

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      • #38616
        Geri7
        Participant

        Does this apply to before the Church Age began as well?

        Is this why David prayed “Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation; and uphold me with thy free spirit”?

        What about Saul?  I’ve heard both sides of the coin claiming he lost his salvation and others saying no, he was backslidden and he still made heaven.

        What say ye? :unsure:

         

        From Dr. Hank Lindstrom

        KING SAUL! HIS SALVATION!

        Was Saul, the King of Israel, ever saved?  Or was he saved and then later lost his salvation as some have said?  This whole subject raises the question about how persons were saved in the Old Testament times and whether anyone once saved could be lost.  Saul and his salvation is debated in many theological quarters.  A question that we believe has a clear answer in the scriptures.  Let’s take a look!

        First of all, let’s take a look at the New Testament.  Peter is preaching in Acts 10:43 and reminds us that all the Old Testament prophets preached that salvation was through Christ.  Also that all the Old Testament prophets taught that FAITH ALONE was the requirement for salvation.  Acts 10:43 says “To him (Jesus Christ) give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.”  Need we go any farther?

        Two things are to be noted.  First, all the O.T. Prophets preached or taught about Jesus Christ being the Savior.  See Galatians 3:8 where Paul tells us that Abraham heard and believed the gospel message of Jesus Christ, “And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.”  Secondly, All the O.T. Prophets taught that FAITH ALONE IN CHRIST ALONE was the means of that salvation.  Note that justification by faith was clearly the message of salvation in the O.T.  If salvation is received by an act of faith and has nothing to do with human works or deeds, then it is eternal (See Romans 6:23 “the gift of God”) and cannot be lost.

        King Saul’s salvation experience is given to us in I Samuel 10:1-12.  First, we have Samuel anointing Saul as the first King in the history of Israel.  “Then Samuel took a vial of oil, and poured it upon his head, and kissed him, and said, Is it not because the LORD hath anointed thee to be captain over his inheritance?”  Then Samuel tells Saul what would happen to Saul that day leading to his salvation.  Verses 2-6 read, “When thou art departed from me to day, then thou shalt find two men by Rachel’s sepulchre in the border of Benjamin at Zelzah; and they will say unto thee, The asses which thou wentest to seek are found: and, lo, thy father hath left the care of the asses, and sorroweth for you, saying, What shall I do for my son?  Then shalt thou go on forward from thence, and thou shalt come to the plain of Tabor, and there shall meet thee three men going up to God to Bethel, one carrying three kids, and another carrying three loaves of bread, and another carrying a bottle of wine: And they will salute thee, and give thee two loaves of bread; which thou shalt receive of their hands.  After that thou shalt come to the hill of God, where is the garrison of the Philistines: and it shall come to pass, when thou art come thither to the city, that thou shalt meet a company of prophets coming down from the high place with a psaltery, and a tabret, and a pipe, and a harp, before them; and they shall prophesy: And the Spirit of the LORD will come upon thee, and thou shalt prophesy with them, and shalt be turned into another man.”

        So, we learn that Saul meets a group of prophets and they preach to him.  We can assume that they preached Christ to Him since this is the main theme of all the Old Testament prophets.  Acts 10:43 says, “To him (Jesus Christ) give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins”.  Upon hearing the gospel preached Saul receives the gospel and is born again.  Note that Saul in verse 6 was “turned into another man,” and again in verse 9 “God gave him another heart,” which clearly is a reference to the new birth.  The phrase “the new man” is clearly a New Testament expression for the new birth.  See Ephesians 4:24.

        Saul’s Christian life experience after his new birth is given in I Samuel 10:7-12.  Samuel is instructing Saul to follow the leading of the Lord (instructions in the Christian life).  “And let it be, when these signs are come unto thee, that thou do as occasion serve thee; for God is with thee.  And thou shalt go down before me to Gilgal; and, behold, I will come down unto thee, to offer burnt offerings, and to sacrifice sacrifices of peace offerings: seven days shalt thou tarry, till I come to thee, and shew thee what thou shalt do.  And it was so, that when he had turned his back to go from Samuel, God gave him another heart: and all those signs came to pass that day.  And when they came thither to the hill, behold, a company of prophets met him; and the Spirit of God came upon him, and he prophesied among them.  And it came to pass, when all that knew him beforetime saw that, behold, he prophesied among the prophets, then the people said one to another, What is this that is come unto the son of Kish?  Is Saul also among the prophets?  And one of the same place answered and said, But who is their father?  Therefore it became a proverb, Is Saul also among the prophets?”  We are told that those who knew Saul before Saul was saved saw the evidence that Saul had been born-again.  His old friends were shocked as Saul joined the prophets and began preaching with them.  “Is Saul also among the prophets?”

        Now we turn to the end of Saul’s life.  Because He was disobedient in his Christian life, God had to discipline and finally to take his life.  We know that a believer cannot lose his salvation (John 6:37,39), but when delinquent, a believer can lose rewards (II John 8; I Corinthians 3:15).  He can also incur the discipline of his heavenly Father and be taken home to heaven early as in I Corinthians 5:1-5.  This Christian had his flesh (body) destroyed but his spirit was saved.

        In I Samuel 28, we have Saul inquiring of the witch of Endor to bring the prophet Samuel back from the dead to answer Saul’s questions concerning his future.  Mediums are unable to bring back the dead, but in this instance God overruled and allowed Samuel to come back.  Christians are forbidden to go to mediums.  Stay away (Deuteronomy 18:10-12; Leviticus 20:6).  Satan’s angels can and do impersonate the dead and therefore we become his prey.

        1 Samuel 28:7 “Then said Saul unto his servants, Seek me a woman that hath a familiar spirit, that I may go to her, and inquire of her.  And his servants said to him, Behold, there is a woman that hath a familiar spirit at Endor.”  When the witch in verse 12 calls up Samuel she screams because this had never happened before.  For the first time, Samuel (someone who had died) comes up at her command.

        Saul wants to know what is going to happen with his war with the Philistines and Samuel gives the answer in verse 19.  “Moreover the LORD will also deliver Israel with thee into the hand of the Philistines: and to morrow shalt thou and thy sons be with me: the LORD also shall deliver the host of Israel into the hand of the Philistines.”  Please NOTE that Saul is told that he is to lose the battle with the Philistines and that he and his sons will be killed.  Also he is told that he would be with Samuel.

        This is very important to note because Samuel the prophet was obviously saved and therefore Saul was saved because he went to be with Samuel (I Samuel 28:19).

        There are those who teach that because Saul was a backslider at the end of his life, he therefore lost his salvation.  The fact that Saul did not lose his salvation is evidenced by the fact that he went to be with Samuel, the prophet of God (I Samuel 28:19).

        Another interesting observation is that in Chapter 15 of I Samuel we see the final meeting of Saul and Samuel prior to the death of Samuel the prophet.  Samuel saw Saul no more after pronouncing a judgment upon Saul because of his disobedience to the Lord, and then Samuel’s death is recorded in Chapter 25:1.  Notice what I Samuel 15:35 says,. “And Samuel came no more to see Saul until the day of his death”: What do we learn?  That Samuel really did come back from the death when the witch of Endor called him forth.  And we learn that it occurred on the same day that Saul died.  Remember that Saul came to the witch in the middle of the night.  The next morning Saul was killed in battle.  The Jews count their days from sundown to sundown.  Therefore the meeting of Saul with the witch of Endor and his death occurred on the same day.  I Samuel 15:35 confirms that this was the final meeting of Saul and Samuel.

        Saul is an example of a believer who did not live for the Lord after his salvation.  He did not lose his salvation, which is impossible.  God saves us with “an everlasting salvation” (Isaiah 45:17) and promises that “He will not leave us, nor forsake us” (Hebrews 13:5).

        As Christians, we are told that we can lose rewards and incur the chastisement of our Heavenly Father.  Notice II John 8 where we read, “Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward.”  Also Hebrew 12:6 which says, “For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.”

        Let’s us learn from the lesson of Saul.  Let us use our time, talents, and treasures to the glory of God.  Let’s begin today!

        – Fair Use –

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    • #38617
      Tammie
      Participant

      So Geri interesting point I read today — remember the story about Saul and the watch of Endour —- she called up “Samuel “ — he told Saul, you and your sons will be with me tomorrow….. I too have heard to versions, one was that it was not the spirit of Samuel…..

      Also, the before Christ individuals (OT) where saved by their belief in God and the their faith in the coming Messiah. No HS … this is similar to what will happen during the tribulation, belief (commitment to) in God and Jesus as the Messiah (Savior). My opinion from my studies and we certainly will know once we get home in a few days :prayer-hands:

      Currently, nothing we can do … it’s all about what Christ did for us … no body ever has to be told they are a sinner (they already know it and especially if the HS is drawing them to the Savior); “Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved” —- I’m a “Who-so-ever” by faith …. “Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen.“ :prayer-hands:

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    • #38618
      Arthur
      Participant

      It has always been by grace alone (No one deserves salvation), through faith alone (No one can earn salvation),  through Christ alone.  (There is only one Saviour,  Jesus Christ)

      God has never changed His plan of salvation.  No matter what age or dispensation.

      We will never meet anyone in heaven who was saved apart from God’s grace.  We will never meet anyone in heaven who worked for their salvation.  It has always been by faith.  We will never meet anyone in heaven who was saved by another saviour.  Jesus is the Way,  the Truth and the Life.  No one comes to the Father but through Jesus Christ.

      I accept dispensationalism but reject hyper dispensationalism.  (Long word.  *Whew*)

      That’s what I believe.  Fire away!  ;-)

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    • #38648
      Yohanan
      Moderator

      Please forgive my nitpicking. I find the Age of Grace to be a misnomer.

      Certainly NONE of any of us deserve God’s favor or grace and I do not think that is being argued here, but the Church Age is also called the Age of Grace regardless of how much we don’t deserve it and cannot earn it. In conversation with another believer, if that person references the Age of Grace I think we all know what epoch they are referring to. It is neither the Old Testament dispensation nor is it the Tribulation period. Revelation calls the saints of that epoch as Tribulation Saints and it is a distinctively different epoch wit a different set of rules.

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      • #38700
        Arthur
        Participant

        The age of grace makes things confusing, though. As mentioned, it has always been an age of grace.

        The church age makes it unambiguous as to what dispensation or age we are in.

        Anyway, it’s just a personal pet peeve on mine. I certainly won’t divide over it or think less of anyone who uses the term age of grace.

        However, the Ruckmanite cult uses the term age of grace and states very clearly that people in the Tribulation will be saved by faith + works. (Not to mention people in the Millennium being saved by works alone.) That greatly concerns me as a Tribulation believer may come across their teachings and be lead astray. :(

        *Hops off soap box.* :P

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    • #38649
      tenderreed
      Participant

      Well said!

      TR

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    • #38650
      tenderreed
      Participant

      Wonder where the term knit picking came from?!

      Always curious about sayings and history like this in our culture!

      TR

       

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    • #38664
      MyWhiteStone
      Moderator

      Don’t ya’ just love Wikipedia?  It includes, “Nitpicking is the act of removing nits (the eggs of lice, generally head lice) from the host’s hair. … This is a slow and laborious process, as the root of each individual hair must be examined for infestation. … … As lice populations can and do develop resistance, [to chemicals] manual nitpicking is still often necessary.”

       

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      • #38670
        Geri7
        Participant

        Eww … of course I had to be reading the Nitpicking definition of lice eggs removal while chewing on a caramel peanut payday candy bar. :-(   I was so looking forward to enjoying this bar since I haven’t had one in a looong time. B-)     :stinkerbell:

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      • #38672
        MyWhiteStone
        Moderator

        I’m sorry, Geri.  I guess in your case my timing answering TR’s question, was lousy.

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      • #38676
        Tammie
        Participant

        :mdrmdr: :mdrmdr: :mdrmdr: :mdrmdr:  Lousy :mdrmdr: :mdrmdr: :mdrmdr: fits so perfectly with nit picking! :stinkerbell:  We have so many tidbits to chew on! :mdrmdr:

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      • #38701
        Arthur
        Participant

        Brilliant! Lol.

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      • #38674
        Tammie
        Participant

        Wonderful description MWS — brings images of apes, monkeys, and chimpanzee removing small nits or insects from fur to eat … yummy!
        Certainly appreciate the visual :calvin

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    • #38678
      MyWhiteStone
      Moderator

      Lice could be the ultimate keto diet for such gifted (hairy) prime-eats.  :yes:   And economical.  Lice come fur cheap!

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      • #38680
        Tammie
        Participant

        There are countries that cook up chocolate covered ants for a healthy, “run” of the mill diet …. how about the hoppin good locust? Dip a few in chocolate and wala full blown meal with dessert covered :mdrmdr:
        Or the delicacy of having monkey brain (China, S. E. Asia, Vietnamese-Nao Hau) —- ok gag me on that one! And cooked grubs — turning green here. :groan :wacko: These will not be served along with the rice/lice at our feast! Ugh! :negative:

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    • #38684
      MyWhiteStone
      Moderator

      Okay, Tammie.  Will there me menus there?  Like TR says: “Wonder if…”

      Maybe a la Dr Seuss:

      Who am I? My name is Ish
      On my hand I have a dish.
      I have this dish to help me wish.
      When I wish to make a wish
      I wave my hand with a big swish swish.
      Then I say, “I wish for fish!”
      And I get fish right on my dish

      Makes one go hmmmm!

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      • #38690
        Tammie
        Participant

        True that MWS — so much that we have seen may very well reflect what will be a reality for our perfected, immortal being —- I have often wondered :unsure:  that is why I am convinced, heaven is going to be so awesome, :yahoo:  beyond belief, crazy fun :yahoo: :wacko: just can’t wait, very hard to not keep saying Abba are we there yet! Are we there yet? Please! To see Jesus, be in pure righteousness, joy, and “wish upon a dish” :yahoo: :prayer-hands: :mdrmdr: :popcorn :popcorn

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      • #38692
        Geri7
        Participant

        How cool to wish for a certain entree and voila it appears on the dish!   However, the last thing I would be wishing for is FISH on the dish. :negative:

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      • #38693
        Tammie
        Participant

        Awe yes – a fish on a dish (salmon, tilapia, tuna, my fav); No fake cake (angel food), a pan-a … manna will work too! Yummy :mdrmdr:

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      • #38697
        MyWhiteStone
        Moderator

        How about a plate for choc-late?

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      • #38698
        Geri7
        Participant

        Aah YES!  Now you’re talking my language. :whistle:

        I’ll be wishing for a chocolate nut platter … :good:

        And a healthier version … a fondue fruit platter … :whistle:

         

        Tammie, no I haven’t heard of cotton candy grapes.  I would love to try them.  Are they seasonal – summer time fruit?  I will be on the look out for them.

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    • #38699
      Tammie
      Participant

      Love the berry tray, sorry not much on the choco – late nut platter, nutty enough :wacko:  — love chocolate but am a bit picky, must be creamy, smooth, possibly a truffle would do :mdrmdr: Can really go for the very bad stuff of white chocolate — oh yea! :yahoo:   That’s it, a pool of whipped, white chocolate next to my home on high, heavenly! :heart: :rose: :yes:
      oh and yes they are seasonal grapes, late summer. :yahoo:

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    • #38702
      Arthur
      Participant

      Ritan’s Law in full effect. ;-)

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    • #38710
      Amy
      Participant

      Exodus 19:16,18-19 KJVS
      And it came to pass on the third day in the morning, that there were thunders and lightnings, and a thick cloud upon the mount, and the voice of the trumpet exceeding loud; so that all the people that was in the camp trembled. [18] And mount Sinai was altogether on a smoke, because the Lord descended upon it in fire: and the smoke thereof ascended as the smoke of a furnace, and the whole mount quaked greatly. [19] And when the voice of the trumpet sounded long, and waxed louder and louder, Moses spake, and God answered him by a voice.

      To think of the Lord making this great of an entrance when He calls us home! :yahoo: :flyup:

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    • #38747
      Yohanan
      Moderator

      Just trying to point out the distinctive differences here and why the Church Age is the only epoch called the Age of Grace.

      John 1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

      Titus 2:11 For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people.

      Romans 6:15 15 What then? Are we to sin because we are not under law but under grace? By no means!

      In previous dispensations (Old testament, antediluvian period, etc) and during the Trib the Holy Spirit did/will not reside in an individual. Only during the Church Age will He do so. In previous epochs and during the Trib it is only temporary.

      During Old Testament times the Jews were required to follow strictly the Law of Moses, which is covered in depth in the Pentateuch (first five books of the Bible). This is called the Dispensation of Law as opposed to the Dispensation of Grace (New Testament). All we are required to do is believe in Jesus as the Son of God, crucified, and raised to life by the power of God. Nothing more is required. The Book of Romans reflects this and has been referred to as the Book of Grace.

      God has always been and always will be gracious. That is His very nature. He was gracious to the Jews prior to His Son’s arrival as a man on this earth. But the Church Age has it so much easier than any other Age and the distinction of being the only Age where believers have the permanent indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

       

      Arthur, it didn’t sound to me like you were on a soap box, just looking for clarity. :good:

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    • #38750
      tenderreed
      Participant

      Well said, and how lucky we are!

      TR

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    • #38768
      Tammie
      Participant

      Amy, true that! God is going to give a “Cry of Command” with the voice of an Archangel —- that will be awesome to the max, our God is Mighty, Strong, and True — I would expect nothing short of totally out of this world amazing from Him. It’s just going to be so cool to be home, in pure righteousness and joy, nothing we have ever experienced before and total God In Steadfast Love! Oh boy! Feeling like doing a couple sets of rapture exercise —- ready everyone stand or sit ….

      1. Arms up – reach for those heavens

      2. Head upward facing (wear that smile)

      3. If able, stretch upward on those toes — hold this position to the count of 7 and repeat for 7 sets, very good.
      4. Singing as you go will help increase the longing and joy of seeing the savior, it also encourages a restful ness :yahoo:

      Good job everyone, give your self a hand — this should be repeated unashamedly at least 3 times a day ( 1 for the Holy Spirit, 1 for the Bridegroom, and 1 for the Father of all). :prayer-hands: :flyup:

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    • #38783
      tenderreed
      Participant

      No doubt everything that Heaven will offer gastronomically will be more delicious than we can ever imagine!

      Again, whether we speak of the 7 days given to Noah or the three days given to the Apostles, these were also given as indictments to a non believing world!

      Another reason for a high sign scenario!

      To many this strikes them as a lack of faith.  I view it as a validation of faith!

      TR

      6+
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